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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Planet Search Overhaul (07/13/24)

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Author Topic: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?  (Read 36840 times)

NONOCE

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2013, 07:47:17 AM »

9 supplies/day for a wasp wing, ouch! That's more than for a dominator.
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Dri

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2013, 08:22:31 AM »

Something I noticed was that an Onslaught takes 1400 (!!!) supplies to fully repair.

So if supplies are what, 100-125 credits per, then we're looking at 140,000-175,000 credits to fully repair. Thats waaaay more than it costs to actually buy a brand new one. Granted when the game finally goes gold you most likely won't be able to just go to a station and buy a new one... but still, thats some crazy cost to repair.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 08:52:01 AM by Dri »
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Psygnosis

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2013, 08:52:02 AM »

What i find is that supplies are more uses in bursts than over time as they were before.

Thanks to more ships carrying supplies. but the lack of supply carriers on my own team ive found myself now with 4 Hounds (Cargo Frigates)

it makes supplies much more manageable
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Silver Silence

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2013, 09:08:27 AM »

Something I noticed was that an Onslaught takes 1400 (!!!) supplies to fully repair.

So if supplies are what, 100-125 credits per, then we're looking at 140,000-175,000 credits to fully repair. Thats waaaay more than it costs to actually buy a brand new one. Granted when the game finally goes gold you most likely won't be able to just go to a station and buy a new one... but still, thats some crazy cost to repair.
For now though, just sell the battered up one and buy a fresh one.


I ran into a problem of jumping from a Wolf to an Eagle, crewed it, fitted it, but couldn't get enough supplies to make it combat ready. Which of course means I can't fight. So I ended up pointlessly flying an Eagle that couldn't fight and couldn't raise itself out of the pit of 0-5% CR because I had no credits to resupply it. Even stripping the guns didn't give me enough money to buy enough supplies to make it combat ready. Even if it did, then it'd be weaponless.
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Uomoz

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2013, 09:13:22 AM »

Stating the obvious: this is all WIP and in the process of being tuned. Adding some simulation managing may scare some of the most casual crowd, but it's not limiting the gameplay by any means. In the real finished game ships will probably be rare to purchase, and a lot harder to acquire. It's similar to a Day-z approach, there's not a good or a bad way to play the game, a better or a more optimized way to play the game, you'll have to do with what you find.

An easy way to try something "hardcore" like that will be playing my future release of UsS(ector).
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Mattk50

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2013, 09:19:45 AM »

Majority of starsectorers seem to miss what's happening here. Let me be clear. It's EASY to maintain your fleet, it's EASY to earn credits and tons of supplies. But it doesn't mean that maintaining your fleet will be enjoyable. It doesn't make gameplay enjoyable. I don't think that there are many players who play only to maintain fleet.
 v.0.54 gameplay was "Space Battles". But with v.0.6 gameplay shifted from "Space Battles" to "Sims in space" or "Tycoon in space".

 I think that for now problem lies within game goals. 0.54 was all about battles as a game goal. 0.6 is all about logistics and thus gameplay revolves around logistics, so even combat starts to revolve around logistics. And in present state there are very limited ways to play the game of logistics. Thats why there are unsatisfied players complaining about supplies, fighters, frigates etc. The problem is not even that supplies are expensive, repairs and cr are expensive and fighters are useless in achieving game goals.
 
 Real problem is that we have very limited range of game goals (like maintaining your fleet through hunting carriers). Limited range of game goals means limited range of tools and strategies to execute. Means limited gameplay experience. Which is not what people usually expect. Really simple and fast way to solve this problem, without touching new systems introduced in 0.6, is to give new goals. For example battle in which deploying fighters and frigates or using other strategies isn't stupid. There should be many-many ways to play starsector, just because there are CR and supplies are expensive players shouldn't be forced in few cost-effective strategies. In fact every strategy should be effective in some situation. For now we don't have that many options to choose from.

 I read blog posts about new systems in 0.6 and I understand why this may be a necessary change. But these changes have to expand gameplay experience instead of limiting it. If there are only few cost-effective ways to play, you have to give new ways. While new changes may give new depth to gameplay experience, they shouldn't be annoying. Which is not a question of removing something, but tuning. Reducing your pool of viable strategies because of cost-effectiveness is annoying. Having more variants to choose from in my pool of strategies, because there are hundred of different situations and each has certain cost-effective strategy, is very enjoyable.

The funny thing which illustrates gameplay shift from combat to logistics is new pop-up with ship's info. In 0.54 it was 1 block of logistic's information and 2 blocs of combat stats. Now its the other way around.

The game is fleshing out the campaign, this is the start, and balancing individual ships usefulness will have to be done as this progresses. Fighters may be too expensive now, but they will be balanced around the campaign. The same goes for high/low tech ships, frigates, and etc. Why? Because that is the ultimate goal of starsector, not a game where you just go here fight this, go here fight this, and it doesnt matter who you make friends or enemies with, because "moving up the ladder" right now is just being at war with everyone and everything. Ships have higher and lower initial and maintenance costs, and maybe that mega fighter fleet with an astral isnt a good idea for just hunting cheap ass pirates, its meant for real war over stations, planets etc. Obviously things still need balancing, like wasp wing shouldnt have the same maintence as an apogee and the bigger ships need price increases to match their increased repair prices (so people dont just buy new ones instead of repairing)

You may see it as a step back, but i see it as a step into the deep end of what i originally bought this game for: the mount and blade style campaign with awesome combat.  If you want nothing to do with the logistics system (which is just advanced fleet points) its probably because you just want a battle arena. Probably better for a mod, maybe something with a neat interface for picking yours and the enemy fleet  :P
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Megas

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2013, 09:45:45 AM »

Quote
Why? Because that is the ultimate goal of starsector, not a game where you just go here fight this, go here fight this, and it doesnt matter who you make friends or enemies with, because "moving up the ladder" right now is just being at war with everyone and everything
That's what made Starsector fun for me, fighting and killing everything that moves, with whatever ships I want!  As long as the campaign supports that, I don't mind.  Once the campaign interferes with that, I don't think I will enjoy Starsector as much as before.
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Psygnosis

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #67 on: September 15, 2013, 09:48:53 AM »

That's what made Starsector fun for me, fighting and killing everything that moves, with whatever ships I want!  As long as the campaign supports that, I don't mind.  Once the campaign interferes with that, I don't think I will enjoy Starsector as much as before.

Then leave?
Youre not paid to post here.
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Uomoz

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #68 on: September 15, 2013, 09:51:45 AM »

Quote
Why? Because that is the ultimate goal of starsector, not a game where you just go here fight this, go here fight this, and it doesnt matter who you make friends or enemies with, because "moving up the ladder" right now is just being at war with everyone and everything
That's what made Starsector fun for me, fighting and killing everything that moves, with whatever ships I want!  As long as the campaign supports that, I don't mind.  Once the campaign interferes with that, I don't think I will enjoy Starsector as much as before.

That's why mods exist. This was never meant to be a casual fighting game (given that the standard setting is Iron Mode).
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Megas

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #69 on: September 15, 2013, 09:52:15 AM »

I paid money to play this game, my concerns are just as valid as other players who want different things from the game.
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Mattk50

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #70 on: September 15, 2013, 10:00:12 AM »

I paid money to play this game, my concerns are just as valid as other players who want different things from the game.

OK, well here's a thought exercise for you. What if i really liked starsector without the special ship systems. what if i HATED them so much that they ruined the game for me. What do i do? Go on the forums and demand they be removed so i may play the new version with it's updates without that specific change? Do i just resign myself and play the old version? Should i make a mod for myself?

This is a serious question, what do you expect should be done? Because theres many people here who love this logistics system just as much as you dislike it, it seems.
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Ravendarke

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #71 on: September 15, 2013, 10:11:47 AM »

I paid money to play this game, my concerns are just as valid as other players who want different things from the game.

Megas then you choose wrong game to invest your money into /wave
There is plenty of casual brainless games, I heard farmville is on the rush lately.
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2013, 10:16:15 AM »

9 supplies/day for a wasp wing, ouch! That's more than for a dominator.

That's kinda odd, it's half of my fleet's supplies/day lol
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BillyRueben

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2013, 10:17:14 AM »

(given that the standard setting is Iron Mode).

It isn't.

The game was WAY too easy before anyway. Now you need to think a little more beyond the current fight. The biggest issue I've run in to so far is the pricing. since supplies cost about right, but weapons and ships are too cheap.
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Axiom

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Re: New patch - supply drain too intense? Supplies too expensive?
« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2013, 10:24:09 AM »

It just occurred to me: The problem isn't that you can't find  and catch enough pirate fleets to profitably whack for supplies (although that may be the case for some people), it's that you have to do it in order to survive. Aside from being patently unrealistic, it's going to be untenable in future versions when civilian playstyles are implemented.

Actually I think the logistics problem will die off with the implementation of an economy based on supply and demand. (which I'm sure would come in the form of more civ related updates) once a base is selling supplies cheap maintaining a large fleet becomes much less of a burden (In that area anyway).

As the game stands the focus is still combat and as there is nothing else in the game yet I don't see being forced to fly around and whack pirates as a problem when the only thing to DO is fly around and whack pirates.

Anyway I like the update all in all. the game has more depth I think now and is just funner for me overall.
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