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Author Topic: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3  (Read 250427 times)

Surge

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #330 on: March 31, 2016, 09:52:10 AM »

No, Citadel has phase ships.
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Orikson

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #331 on: October 08, 2016, 10:07:55 PM »

Hello, just another random forumer here.

So, I thought it was a pity that Citadel is playable in the current version of Starsector (and with all the popular mods) but hasn't been updated in a long while.

Among the ships, only one is currently unusable, and that's the phase cruiser (Adumbral).

Here's a small fix one could apply to make the phase cruiser usable.

The files you are going to mess with are these:

- Fox_Battleship.ship in data/hulls.
- citadelphase.system in data/shipsystems.
- ship_systems (excel files) in data/shipsystems.
- CitadelPhaseStats.java in jars/src/data/shipsystems/scripts.

Some recommendations: To make it easier to modify the files (aside from Excel), Notepad++ is what I used.

Disclaimer: I don't know whether these modifications are relevant or not, but it works for me.

Other stuff/Rambling:
- They are a lot of balance changes probably needed for the mod.
- The ships cost a lot to get and maintain, so you'll have to consider stuff when using them.
- No clash with other mods as far as I can tell because there's no heavy scripting present.
- You might be confused for two Citadel weapons in game as they share the same sprite. These are the Concussion Beam and Siege Beam (it's shown at the front page of the mod by the way).
- Gateway, one of Citadel's planets in its home system lies within its star's corona. So... its finicky in the sense that it'll be easy to attack and conquer, but hard to defend. Sindrians with their Solar Shielding may have the best foot hold if the ever decide to attack.



1. For Fox_Battleship.ship , go to the part that says "builtInMods". Then, add in these two lines to give the ship the proper phase cloak ship hullmods. I'll highlight the lines below.

For a better or proper addition of these lines, open up the Afflictor's hull file in starsector-core/data/hulls ad copy the lines needed.

"builtInMods": [
    "fluxoverdrive",
    "high_maintenance",
    "phasefield",               ---> Add this.
    "delicate",                  ---> And also this.
  ],


2. For citadelphase.system :

Delete this line:

"statsScript":"data.shipsystems.scripts.CitadelPhaseStats",

And in its place, add these lines:

"statsScript":"com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.combat.PhaseCloakStats",
"runScriptWhilePaused":true, # only for the player's ship
"runScriptWhileIdle":true,  # this means unapply() never gets called
"blockActionsWhileChargingDown":false,

Then, remove the '#' symbol from these lines:

#"effectColor1":[160,240,220,250],
#"effectColor2":[255,255,255,150],

Next, modify these lines:

#"useSound":"system_phase_cloak_activate",
#"useSound":"system_phase_skimmer",
"useSound":"FoxCitadelPhaseIn",   
"deactivateSound":"FoxCitadelPhaseOut",
"outOfUsesSound":"system_phase_cloak_collision",

To be these lines:

"useSound":"FoxCitadelPhaseIn",   
#"deactivateSound":"FoxCitadelPhaseOut",
"deactivateSound":"FoxCitadelPhaseOut",
"outOfUsesSound":"system_phase_cloak_collision",

Note - I used the phasecloak.system file in the starsector-core/data/shipsystems as a reference.


3. For the ship_systems (excel file), it is the simplest one to fix.

Open it up and go to column N, line 6 (the cool down) and replace the 0 with a 2.

That way, it'll fulfil the 2 second cool down of phase cloaking.


4. For CitadelPhaseStats.java , all I did was... copy paste.

Open the PhaseCloakStatsOld.java in starsector-core/data/shipsystems/scripts.

Copy the entire file and the paste it into CitadelPhaseStats.java after deleting whatever's there.


Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 10:22:28 PM by Mr. K »
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Lopunny Zen

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #332 on: December 16, 2018, 06:14:48 PM »

I forgot this mod was a thing. Is there anyone that would take this mod over? So much lost potential
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Cyan Leader

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #333 on: December 18, 2018, 09:40:30 AM »

I'm not that interested but I really don't see why most of the artwork would have to be replaced. Those sprites hold up.
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peperoni_playboy

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #334 on: December 18, 2018, 03:06:27 PM »

According to the original post: the author has said he's on indefinite hiatus, and anyone who is so inclined is permitted to update it. I agree that the sprites are still looking good, I don't think that's where the work is needed. I played with this mod back when it was current, the meat of any patching effort will have to go towards code and balance compatibility with the current game version.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #335 on: December 18, 2018, 06:19:48 PM »

The sprites do indeed need a lot of work, know why?

Hidden weapon mounts are bad, and to get rid of all of them requires heavily reworking the sprites. And that is just to make them work, not even getting into making them look better.

Cyan Leader

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #336 on: December 19, 2018, 07:34:17 AM »

The sprites do indeed need a lot of work, know why?

Hidden weapon mounts are bad, and to get rid of all of them requires heavily reworking the sprites. And that is just to make them work, not even getting into making them look better.

I don't see that as being a core issue, one could just port the mod to the current standards in terms of balance/faction requirements and ignore that. I mean again, I understand that it wouldn't be ideal and it would bring down the mod, but still.

This isn't such an big deal if you're just making a cheapie flash-in-the-pan update, but if we're talking about lost potential let's talk about that potential, not the admittedly simple but ditchwater-dull task of getting an old mod shambling around in zombie form, which is so far what you get when you ask for one to be 'updated' the cut-corner way.

Hum, I don't see it this way at all. Having the mod playable at all is always a positive over it not existing. At least then people will have a chance of discovering it and lending support, improving it over time.
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Cyan Leader

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #337 on: December 19, 2018, 09:34:58 AM »

Again, the difference between doing a crappy job and doing a good job isn't as great as you think it is.

I think there is a sizable difference in coding something up to make a compatible version to "heavily modifying" assets and creating new ones, especially if the person who takes on this isn't familiar with spriting. Again, I'm not particularly interested, but I don't like the idea of demotivating people from doing compatibility patches when they would be a straight gain from what we have now—nothing.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 09:37:19 AM by Cyan Leader »
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fatrat

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #338 on: December 19, 2018, 02:37:15 PM »

The sprites do indeed need a lot of work, know why?

Hidden weapon mounts are bad, and to get rid of all of them requires heavily reworking the sprites. And that is just to make them work, not even getting into making them look better.

I'm new to the game, so take this with a grain of salt when i ask, what's so bad about Hidden weapon mounts?
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #339 on: December 19, 2018, 07:36:26 PM »

The sprites do indeed need a lot of work, know why?

Hidden weapon mounts are bad, and to get rid of all of them requires heavily reworking the sprites. And that is just to make them work, not even getting into making them look better.

I'm new to the game, so take this with a grain of salt when i ask, what's so bad about Hidden weapon mounts?

They cannot be disabled by weapons fire, nor observed to know how a ship is equipped at a glance. In vanilla they are *only* used on fighters and never on ships. In mods if a ship is to have them, you should have a *really* good reason to do so and 99.999% of the time there isn't one.

Mesnomer

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #340 on: December 21, 2018, 09:07:28 AM »

If being told that modding is work is 'demotivating', someone likely wasn't going to be much of a modder in the first place, given that modding involves arguing with people like you who don't remotely know what they're talking about as much as it does the often maddening work of Starsector API spelunking. But that's not my intent; I'd love it if more people just stepped up like a mensch and revived the mods they think should be revived. I also think that sloppy, low-effort, garbage mod revivals like you're suggesting aren't worth doing, so I don't do them. Judging by the relative paucity of lasting mod revivals of the type you suggest, the board as a whole agrees with me.

You're either being very disingenuous or you just don't realize how condescending this sounds. If you're actually interested in people taking the initiative to start tinkering with old mods to get them working, why are you being so hostile? Everyone starts somewhere. If the community has reached the consensus that people shouldn't even attempt a revival without knowing 100% that they'll be able to meet your standards from the get-go, it's not a lack of work ethic that's keeping them from starting -- it's probably a culture of elitism that scares folks off.

Speaking as someone who has been quite interested in getting involved with Starsector modding, I really, really hope you aren't speaking for the community as a whole, because it sounds like getting started would be a pretty miserable experience.
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #341 on: December 21, 2018, 01:12:29 PM »

With all due respect Mesnomer and Cyan, I have to agree with Soren because I think the point he's trying to get at is "If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well." If he comes off aggressively, it's cos he's a damn decent modder with a genuine passion, who doesn't want someone to do a half-assed job of bringing back what is apparently one of the old favourite mods.
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Mesnomer

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #342 on: December 21, 2018, 02:19:27 PM »

Fair. I think I'm just reading this more harshly than it was intended.

That said, I don't think it's a bad thing for someone to do the grunt work of bringing something up to speed as long as they're transparent about when they aren't willing to continue updating it. If the mod is an old favorite, then maybe there's someone else willing to take up the torch and continue refining/polishing it. And if nobody does right away, at least that gives the next person coming along a better starting point -- or they can make the choice to go back to the last "authoritative" update and start from scratch.

I'm just not seeing how this is a mutually exclusive arrangement. If the updater does a terrible job, it's not like the mod was playable beforehand. Not much to lose as long as they don't wipe out the original files or something. But maybe I'm missing something.

You know where is a great place to start? With an original idea. Make something of your own instead of riding on the coattails of an existing mod. You'll learn more, you'll make better work, and you'll be more invested in what you produce. People might not like your idea, and your idea might genuinely be bad, but creative learning processes involve making a lot of terrible things on the way to making something good. And making stuff is inherently fun, even if it sucks.

This is probably good advice for most people, but here's the thing: I am not an artist and I have no intention of developing that skillset. And it ain't just an execution thing -- my sense of visual aesthetics is a terrifying thing to behold. Like if Frank Frazetta tried to draw manga with nothing but neon crayons and black velvet.

However, I really enjoy tweaking and refining systems to help them do what they do better (I'm a writer/editor by trade. Go figure.), so not having to worry about the art side of things helps me a ton.

If you pop by the Discord, I'll happily answer modding questions. You can ask Nia, Vayra, or anybody else I've helped out with their mods. And you can look at the community resources I've put up there, like the blank AI Core and Blueprint backdrop pack (which, now that I mention it, really ought to go up in the relevant forum, too). Unlike Cyan Leader or the now-banned Lopunny Zen, I've put my money where my mouth is; if I think something should exist, I put work into it rather than filling up the forum and my post history with 'somebody should do this!' posts.

I might just take you up on that. Thanks.

Edit: Let me put it this way: When you're teaching writing, starting someone off with a writing prompt and a blank page is only one way of approaching it (and not always the best). Some people respond better to, say, taking a prewritten paragraph and telling them to write what they think should come next, or giving them a completed short story and asking "how would you write this?" Are you getting original content? No, but you're not asking for that, are you? You're asking for them to start critically thinking about the content and using that as a starting point for their own creative work.

This isn't a one-to-one metaphor, obviously, but that's kinda how I'm looking at this.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:35:10 PM by Mesnomer »
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.7a] Citadel v0.8.3 - On Hiatus [2/18/2016]
« Reply #343 on: December 21, 2018, 04:42:31 PM »

This is probably good advice for most people, but here's the thing: I am not an artist and I have no intention of developing that skillset. And it ain't just an execution thing -- my sense of visual aesthetics is a terrifying thing to behold. Like if Frank Frazetta tried to draw manga with nothing but neon crayons and black velvet.

However, I really enjoy tweaking and refining systems to help them do what they do better (I'm a writer/editor by trade. Go figure.), so not having to worry about the art side of things helps me a ton.

The "Spiral Arms" Sprite Dump exists. (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12896.0) Many modders and would-be-modders post ship and weapon sprites on there for anyone to use, so you don't have to move a single pixel if you aren't comfortable.

That said, you'd still be encouraged to try spriting for yourself. Kitbashing (taking vanilla ship sprites, cutting them up and pasting them back together in new and original ways) is actually very easy: it's a method with a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling, so it's super-easy to pick up and can produce some amazing sprites. And it's arguably the single best method for matching the vanilla art style, if you're pedantic about such things.

And, as Soren has already pointed out, the Unofficial Starsector Discord chat is a treasure trove of advice and tips of all things modding, spriting included.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 04:46:55 PM by AxleMC131 »
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