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[Trylobot]

I was going to move this to Mods and then I remembered, "You can do it yourself."

[mendonca]

This is highly unusual, a product of something we didn't even know was an autofactory. Now all our autofactories are running at full speed, our fate in this world is doomed to maybe a handful of years, or even months.

It is bizarre - the lengths our ancestors went to to facilitate war with our cousins on other worlds - but their work will be put to some use.

If we had a choice, I would still continue to hide.



(new version available ...)

[Sabaton]

 Don't know why this mod is so obscure, the lore is good, the ships are awesome, and the idea is nice.
 They definitely are a challenge to play as, managing a normal fleet can be tricky, even more so if the ships tend to lack the punch to kill a target all by themselves.
 They're also unique among factions, if you were to see one of their ships you wouldn't think it's part of a faction, they have nothing in common with one another.

[mendonca]

Thanks Sabaton 

It would be cool to get a bit more feedback on this mod, I must say, but it also makes me happy seeing all the other people's awesome mods get attention, so it doesn't really bother me that much.

[HELMUT]

I think the reason why there is not that much people playing this mod is the lack of achievement and the difficulty.

By lack of achievement i mean there is not much to play. You got 7 ships to play and that's all. Given that they are pretty cheap you can get them all before the 15 min mark and... Well, that's where the mod end. A lot of people (me included) want to try all the ships and play with a bit. When that's done, they move on to something else. Also, not being able to fly something bigger than a destroyer feel kinda underwhelming.

Basically there is no much content yet to play with.

The second thing is that this faction is perhaps the most underpowered in the entire modding community. I am not saying they need a buff, they are supposed to be crappy tech. But when you are used to fly Neutrino ships and you end up with a Bedlington, it hurt. They are on the same level with pirates ships, if not lower and it can be disorienting for the player who is used with mid/high-tech ships and it can be frustrating to get killed by a buffalo MKII.

I played this mod with Uomoz's journey and it's pretty hardcore. When you don't get slaughtered by everything that fly, it's famine decimating your crew due to the lack of supply (PACK tends to need a lot of crew which strain your supply chain). So not for the faint of heart.

It's a shame because i like this mod too. But right now they are nothing more than the cannon-fodder of the sector (they are supposed to) and you know you'll get butchered by everyone else anyway. My idea would be to give them at least one or two big ships to the PACK. Even if they are pretty crappy, at least they'll still be the "F4CK-YOU!" letter from PACK to the rest of the universe rather than the "just-end-my-life" feel from other ships.

[Uomoz]

Well, I find PACK playthroughs the most entertaining while playing UsS. Hardcore stuff.

[mendonca]

Thanks for the thoughts, Helmut.

I'll give it some thought, on the one hand I think you are probably right - on the other, I don't want to start needlessly adding bigger ships just because.

Cruisers and above just don't feel right to me, with the lore I have set up around them. I guess I'm okay if people (in general) don't like that. Also I'm not sure how the faction would manage to have many more hull types than this? It would be great to add more and more ships, but without a compelling reason to do so - or some sort of inspiration, I don't see what else they would have managed to come up with.

Perhaps a large freighter - for historically travelling - but I guess they would be as likely to have used an Atlas.

Does limit them a bit in the game, perhaps, but again - I'm okay with that.

And surely it's not just me and Uomoz that enjoy playing with 'weak' ships?

[Sabaton]

 I agree with Helmut on the lack of content, there are too few ships, and I for one don't even like the frigates and think the destroyers can shine on their own.
 As for the underpowered part, perhaps giving them a universal mount affinity for flexibility and lowering the crew requirements to compensate?( you really can't afford big crews for mere destroyers now).

[Uar]

 Just wanted to say that I love playing with the pack in Exerelin! I just started playing a couple of days ago (the game) blasted through the vanilla stuff and went right for the mods. Added exerelin and almost everything that is compatible with it faction wise. I "was" one of those onslaught guys coming fresh out of vanilla and had a hell of a lot to learn transitioning from hegemony ships to the pack... but I got to say I love them! They are hard to play, and for the first time ever I have had my entire fleet wiped out multiple times and had fun doing it! Nomads and the occasional Batavia/tri fleets that get the better of me. I stuck to using just PACK ships but I have salvaged some weaponry from other factions and have been using them. My favorite ship by far is the ridgeback in either form, with a higher level character they are very adaptable and enjoyable to play. I do pine for a cruiser type ship to be the "flagship" though. I know they are not meant to be a super powerful force but sometimes I wish I had just a bit more firepower to help fend off the massive nomads fleets that are constantly trying to drive me from the sector!

[mendonca]

Hey thanks Uar for the thoughts.

I was inspired to do some more on this, introducing the Shar Pei. Didn't quite know what it was going to end up like, but it has a FEW more guns for the fleet.

Unfortunately, it doesn't have a shield, but it DOES have limitless (relatively high flux cost) phase skims to enable it to hop out the way of stuff.

I've also shuffled the P.A.C.K. fleet in line with the 0.6.2a balance, also buffing them a touch to make the smaller frigates more capable of running solo (upping cargo a bit). They also get a general buff to burn speed.

Spoiler

SHAR PEI Class Destroyer:

2 No. front mounted medium missile mounts
2 No. front mounted medium ballistic mounts
6 No. small energy turrets

System: highly stable but extremely cumbersome phase skimmer. Unfortunately there is no room left for a shield generator.

[close]

[Uomoz]

Implementing!

[Uar]

 Downloading Uomoz's Sector mod to try the pack in there, look forward to testing out the shar pei as well! I will let you know what I think as soon as I can manage to acquire one.

[mendonca]

So I've been doing a bit of further playtesting on this, and have come up with the following thoughts:

- Shar Pei feels cool. I'd like to know if it's not my own bias though, because I only trust my judgement so far. I think there is a danger that it is very similar in loadout to the Ridgeback(s) and the BRT. Hopefully it is differentiated enough, though. Once you get the front shield emitter, you probably have enough extra OP to support it without too much bother, and it becomes a step-change more survivable with sensible flux management and a couple of 'artillery' options in the medium ballistic slots.
- BRT and Ridgeback are not really, stats-wise, differentiated at all. The BRT is inferior in every way. Only choice would be whether jets + slightly different weapons layout is better for the BRT (it's not enough, I think). I've attempted to resolve this by increasing the supply overhead and recovery time for the Ridgeback, the BRT also gets a free Affenpinscher - effectively a built-in heavy burst laser with 360 coverage and slightly different stats for flavour purposes - adding to it's supposed role as a 'Guard' ship. Choice hopefully becomes a real one now.
- Some of the supply recovery rates and CR costs are too low in the current version. I have tweaked these down (or up, whichever way you look at it - they become less favourable) for some of the more 'Supporty' or 'Advanced' ships like the Ridgeback, Shar Pei or Komondor, reflecting their less optimal use for sustained combat (they are still in line with the best Mastery-Epoch ships, though).

I'm quite enjoying playing with them, their low supply overheads allow extended runs from Canis to Corvus to torment the Pirates and Hegemony. I am too scared to anger the TT though. Maybe that's the next balance test ...

I'd appreciate any further points of discussion anyone might have, on the off chance anyone is actively playing with this mod, that I can pick up in the current balance pass. 

[FasterThanSleepyfish]

I just want to say, I was outmanuverered by a swarm of pack frigates. They are like tempests with hvelocity drivers and really good armor.

[mendonca]

Teeny tiny update.

Affenpinscher attached atop all BRTs. (maybe something else balance wise, I can't really remember)