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Author Topic: [0.9.5a] Hiigaran Descendants v2.0.4/v5  (Read 466964 times)

echosierraalpha

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #330 on: September 23, 2013, 04:21:42 PM »

Ya, but look at it this way, if you add a link and make the words bigger, less people will bug you with this recurring problem, and then you can spend more time being lazy being constructive!

It's a win win!
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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #331 on: September 23, 2013, 04:33:13 PM »

I fully agree, that's why I made a link right after I posted "Aaagh, them lazy peoples. >:(".

My time is precious!

(Not really.)


I'm going to create a bunch of missions for both Bushi and HD. Are there people willing to do some testing on these when they're done?
I'll probably make them way too easy, which would not be my intent.


I also think some capital ships are about to lose some weapon mounts. Mainly the Sajuuk, Taiid and Koshiir. Possibly others. Not sure yet. What do others think? Are these ships too powerful compared to vanilla capital ships?
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echosierraalpha

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #332 on: September 23, 2013, 05:18:16 PM »

Ooh! Ooh! Pick me!
I will gladly play-test some missions!

regarding the weapon mounts: I kinda have to agree, but I'm not sure how much of it is because of the player perks, and how much its due to the ships itself. my AI controlled ships generally have no problem kicking other capital ships' butts though.

Speaking of the Taiid though, I kinda just noticed that the Hiigarans have 2 capital class carriers that are only differentiated by their weaponry. As it is, the woodan is (kinda) redundant with the new 6.0 update and the removal of hangars. on the flip side, the Hiigarans don't really have any light, highly mobile carriers, especially in the destroyer/ cruiser class. in light of this, can we  adjust the woodan to become a cruiser-class carrier instead? maybe reduce it to 2 flight decks and downsize the weaponry?

maybe make give it a few small, rotatable missile mounts for some Tviir love?
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #333 on: September 23, 2013, 07:02:46 PM »

Gotcha!

You know I got you back for this stuff BrosefStalin ;)

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #334 on: September 24, 2013, 05:38:21 AM »

@echosierraalpha: Ya sure like them Tviir's, that's fer sure.

The main difference between both carriers is that the Wodaan actually carries its own bomber wings while the Taiid has to rely on its own weapons. I was flying with it the other day though (I admit that I hardly ever use the Taiid) and found its ability to shred small fleets apart, while also supporting fighter wings, disturbing.

I'll see about creating more universal mounts, but I will thread carefully here, because too many of these will bring unbalance into the Force.

I don't think the Wodaan will be touched, sizewise, since it's my favourite ship. :P

I'll let you know when I've finished the missions that I want to make. :)

@MesoTronik: Thanks! Once there's testables to be done I'll bug you on Skype.
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ssthehunter

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #335 on: September 24, 2013, 05:53:43 AM »

I fully agree, that's why I made a link right after I posted "Aaagh, them lazy peoples. >:(".

My time is precious!

(Not really.)


I'm going to create a bunch of missions for both Bushi and HD. Are there people willing to do some testing on these when they're done?
I'll probably make them way too easy, which would not be my intent.


I also think some capital ships are about to lose some weapon mounts. Mainly the Sajuuk, Taiid and Koshiir. Possibly others. Not sure yet. What do others think? Are these ships too powerful compared to vanilla capital ships?
not really, with no player skills (except in logistics) you get your ass handed to you. I went against a hed fleet with equal amounts of the same types of ship and I got my ass handed to me (alright not really, it was a narrow victory for them).
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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #336 on: September 24, 2013, 09:56:10 AM »

@ssthehunter:
To make it clearer for me, do you think the capital ships are fine as they are now?
Did you use a particular capital ship?
Or do you share that opinion for all capital ships?

Thanks for the feedback!
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ssthehunter

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #337 on: September 24, 2013, 10:07:07 AM »

@ssthehunter:
To make it clearer for me, do you think the capital ships are fine as they are now?
Did you use a particular capital ship?
Or do you share that opinion for all capital ships?

Thanks for the feedback!
I feel that the Koshiir, Qwarr, Tiiad are fine.
The Sajuuk could use some nerfing in the cap though.
The dreadnought sucks.  Really. Just going to put it bluntly.
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #338 on: September 24, 2013, 10:08:29 AM »

I don't know if you tweaked it since I last played around with the Hiigarans in 0.54, but I remember the Sajuuk-Khar's laser being somewhat underwhelming. After looking at it in the weapon data, it's the same damage as the Skaal but with a longer burst. Combined with having no large guns, it's a bit of a paper tiger.

The Koshiir, I can't comment on that as I never fitted it "properly". I had the main guns in the large slots and every medium and small slot just had the Hiigaran burst PD.
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molotof

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #339 on: September 24, 2013, 11:05:37 AM »

The Koshiir, I can't comment on that as I never fitted it "properly". I had the main guns in the large slots and every medium and small slot just had the Hiigaran burst PD.

I Love the Koshiir, fitted with an heavy ion beam and two singlarity canon and the proper pilot trait (better weapon aiming, better range ...) it can burst an entire Pirate plunder fleet alone easily and quite always at safe range. The sensor drone just make a great difference. That's my main ship at the moment, but i'm testing other capital.

The Sajuuk is a great piece of firepower, it's slow but it's meant to be like that i think, i think it will be more effective with one heavy turret less (a rear one ?) and a bit more of speed (like 3 or 5). It's a flagship that always need a good escort, so i'm not able to use it very well at now, i will bring him to combat when i will have a better logistic.

I was going to test the Kuun-Lan and next the Sajuuk-Khar but i saw that the station was filled like in my other game, capital ship disappear too, replaced by fighter and bomber wing, crap, where is the Sajuuk-Khar !

Then i decided to test the console command mod, after some test i figured out.
It's pretty simple all you need is in the data folder of the mod, you'll see .csv for the ship weapon etc ... it contains id of the object that will be needed to spawn them with addship and addweapon command, it look like that :

Spoiler
addweapon hii_pulsar_beam x
x is  an optional quantitie argument
[close]

Spoiler
addship hii_pride_of_new_hiigara_Standard
you must put the variant (Standard) in the command
[close]
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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #340 on: September 24, 2013, 11:54:01 AM »

@molotof: As a modder I know the console command mod, and it is a nice tool indeed. I couldn't do without it, being able to test my new stuff on the fly.

Anyway, I really hope 0.6.1 will take that item problem away. If Alex accidentally reads this, I'd love to see an option to have the game make sure at least one stack of items sticks around, only being removed when the player buys it.
This disappearing stuff is making me depressed.

The disappearing ships problem though, did you buy all badges? Bigger ships won't appear until you buy these badges.

The Sajuuk is indeed slow, but I wouldn't see it any other way. I believe that in the end capital ships should not be able to take on entire fleets without backup. :)

@Silver Silence: It's still the same, yeah. It's a perfect weapon for destroying large, slow ships, especially when you level up and unlock hull mods for this ship. So I'm not changing this ship I'm afraid. :)  (Ps: It does have a longer range than the Skaal one.)
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molotof

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #341 on: September 24, 2013, 12:00:37 PM »

The disappearing ships problem though, did you buy all badges? Bigger ships won't appear until you buy these badges.

Yep i bought them right of the beginnning of the game, i just had to edit my savegame to have the amount of cash, so i was able to saw him in the station earlier.
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Magician

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #342 on: September 24, 2013, 12:33:38 PM »

Earlier, when someone mentioned that Sustained Beams were a little overpowered, I did some tests. Overall I don't find HD capitals overwhelming. And I also find that those big-big lasers aren't that dangerous despite of their power. When I fight against HD ships their big lasers dont scare me at all.
But I found that sustained beams are a bit overpowered for mid size weapons. In short they have one of the best traits of weapons (like beam type instead of projectiles, sustained dmg, turn speed), and at the same time they have stats of assault type weapons, but comparing to vanilla and even other mods sustained beams stats are about 30-40% higher. And because of that when ship with enough sustained beams gets in range - it oblitirates anything regardless of shields/armor/hull stats. I did tests even without skills and still sustained beams stats are too good.
So the only reason I am very cautious of HD big ships is that in close range (default range 700 iirc) they will melt most of ships with sustained beams given opportunity.

My thoughts about sustained beams are that they should have similiar to other assault weapons flux/dps ratio. Also, because the main feature and distinction of sustained beams is that they work as a classic laser, it would be incorrect to just raise their flux generation, because in that case they will not fire as a classic laser because of high flux usage. Maybe it is possible to find a balance so that they still have enough dps to be considered assault weapon, mediocre flux usage, and at the same time their flux/dps ratio wouldn't be so much better than on other weapons.
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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #343 on: September 24, 2013, 12:43:35 PM »

@molotof: That sucks. Thanks for the info. I'll ask for a solution to this problem in a new thread. :)

@Magician: Thanks for your feedback. I find it very hard to balance these beams. I've changed their damage up and down several times.
I've lowered their damage back to 300 (was 350), not touching the flux use, am wondering if I should go as low as 250.
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echosierraalpha

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Re: [0.6a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.0.0
« Reply #344 on: September 25, 2013, 10:16:00 AM »

Well, the thing to remember about the sustained beam is that while they are very, very powerful, they also leave your ship extremely vulnerable after each shot, with flux often very close to, or reaching max level. This means that ships like the Skaal are exceedingly vulnerable to swarm tactics, where while the ship can take out 1 (or 2, if you're lucky or a good shot), the rest will quickly tear you to shreds as you lack the flux to effectively use your shield. if you vent, your enemy might kill or cripple your now defenseless ship. if you don't, you have defend yourself with 2 PDs and no shields while your flux slowly decreases.

Mind you, this also applies to ships with shields that could tank your shots, such as the Tri-taychon Aurora or, to a much more lesser extent, the eagle. What do I mean? well, try going in game and attacking an aurora or eagle with a "standard" loadout. As it is in the current game, an AI controlled Skaal with the default loadout will find it very difficult (if not impossible) to kill a standard eagle. and, in turn, even a good player will find it very difficult to put down an aurora with just the standard loadout, as the current flux dissipation rate (both by venting and simply by waiting it out) are simply insufficient for the job. As such, I have to disagree with your assessment of the beam's OP-ness  :-\. While its true that it is a very, very effective ship when used in the right hands (there is nothing more satisfying than watching a destroyer simply melt when I shoot at it  ;D) the nature of the ship is very much a high-risk, high reward kind of vessel, and I kinda feel that nerfing the damage without touching the flux will make it lose that very delicate balance of power vs vulnerability, especially if nerfed to 250.

...
...

then again, I may be kinda biased, primarily because watching destroyers melt like butter is very amusing to me  :P
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