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[UberWaffe]

Yes, I am fully aware that the economy is not done (or even really started) by any stretch of the imagination.
This is exactly why I think that throwing some brainstorming ideas out there now is good, since (hopefully) there can still be changes and additions made.

The basic economy principle:

Spoiler

Supply and demand should determine prices.
It keeps things dynamic, and makes trade more interesting and the economy more alive. The "X: Beyond the frontier" series is a good example of why this works well.
It is also less work (once the engine part is done) to get a 'living' economy feel, as one only really needs to define sources of raw resources, and consumers of end products.

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Modular space factories:

Spoiler

I would love to see a station be made up of various modules working together as one.
Ex: A smelter module that melts down ore into metals. A power-plant module that generates energy. Etc.
Similar to how a ship has hardpoints, a station would also have a module capacity.
Modules can then be mixed and matched as required, to get the custom factory you desire.

For simplicity's sake, I have no problem if a station is still represented as they are now. (I.e. do not try and render individual modules, just the station as a whole).

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How a module works:

Spoiler

Simulating 'batching' is a relatively simple approach that would allow wide variation and flexibility in production.
It can be done by having the following concepts:

• A module has 1 or more production lines.
• Each production line can execute a batch. (i.e. while a line is doing a batch, it has to finish the batch before starting another. But separate lines can execute separate batches.)
• A batch has a execution time (how long this batch takes), a quantity list of produced items (what do you get once the batch completes. May be nothing.), and a quantity list of resources needed to start (what must be inside the station hold in order to start this batch. May be nothing.)
• A batch can define its outputs as being primary or secondary. (Primary means there must be open storage for those items when the batch to completes. Secondary means if there is no space for it when the batch completes, then it is simply lost.)
• A module has a list of batches it can do, and always tries to execute the list from top to bottom. (i.e. if it has an open line, then it tries to execute a batch. If it does not have the resources needed to start the first batch in its batch list, then it checks the second batch in its list, then the next, etc.)
• A module has an associated running cost that is charged every minute regardless of is the module is producing or not

With this approach, you can easily make very dynamic factories.
Examples:

Spoiler

An ore smelter:
1 Production line.
Possible batches:
-- (20x Ore + 100x Energy) @ 1 minute = (20x Metal [P]).
If it doesn't have either the ore or the metal, it can do nothing.

A power generator that can be overcharged:
1 Production line.
Possible batches:
-- (1x Booster) @ 10 seconds = (200x Energy [P])
-- (Nothing) @ 10 seconds = (20x Energy [P])
Since the booster batch is first in the list, the power generator will always execute a boosted batch if boosters are available.
But if no boosters are available, then it will just execute the normal "free but little energy" batch.

A meat factory with a fertilizer byproduct:
1 Production line.
Possible batches:
-- (20x Grain + 50x Water) @ 1 minute = (50x Meat [P] + 25x Fertilizer [Sec])
If there is no space for the fertilizer, then the batch still executes but you only get the meat. (I.e. you just lose out on the extra byproduct).

Using the system to simulate planet populations consuming resources, and producing personnel:
1 Production line.
Possible batches:
-- (20x Happiness) @ 0 seconds (instant) = (1x Personnel [P])
-- (10x Food + 5x Metal + 1x Consumer Goods) @ 10 seconds = (4x Happiness [Sec])
-- (5x Food) @ 10 seconds = (Nothing)
-- (1x Happiness) @ 10 seconds = (Nothing)
What this would do, is allow the station to slowly gain a virtual resource called "Happiness" if supplied with everything it wants.
Once it has enough happiness, it produces a single personnel.
If you cannot give it everything it wants, but at least food, then it just stays as happy as it is.
If you don't provide it with anything, then is loses happiness.

Running a space hotel:
3 Production lines.
Possible batches:
-- (10x Narcotics + 10x Rich Guests + 1000x Reputation) @ 10 seconds = (1014x Reputation + 10x Spent Guests [P] + 20000x Credits)
-- (10x Booze + 10x Rich Guests + 1000x Reputation) @ 10 seconds = (1002x Reputation + 10x Spent Guests [P] + 4000x Credits)
-- (10x Narcotics + 10x Rich Guests + 100x Reputation) @ 10 seconds = (114x Reputation + 10x Spent Guests [P] + 5000x Credits)
-- (10x Booze + 10x Rich Guests + 100x Reputation) @ 10 seconds = (102x Reputation + 10x Spent Guests [P] + 1000x Credits)
-- (10x Narcotics + 10x Rich Guests) @ 10 seconds = (14x Reputation + 10x Spent Guests [P] + 2000x Credits)
-- (10x Booze + 10x Rich Guests) @ 10 seconds = (2x Reputation + 10x Spent Guests [P] + 400x Credits)
-- (2x Reputation) @ 10 seconds = (Nothing)
With its 3 production lines, it will be somewhat hard to keep all the lines from doing the loss of reputation run. (I.e. no booze or narcotics)
Once you've passed 100 reputation, you get 2.5x more credits per booze or narcotic. (I.e you get the reputation used back at the end of the batch)
Once you've passed 1000 reputation, you get 10x more credits per booze or narcotic.

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I.e. A great many possibilities from the single underlying system.

[close]

[Flare]

One thing that always bugged me when playing the Patrician games was that there were always these commodities like salt and basic food stuff like flour that would never sell for very much.

You would think the reason for these low earning commodities in those games was that while you can never make massive profits on the higher end commodities like iron tools and meat and furs, the demand for these commodities would be far more stable than demand for furs and meats would be. Year long contracts for example supplying these low earning commodities would net a modest but very stable income that selling the more luxurious commodities might not always bring back.

If this was in those games, there would be purpose then for these commodities in the long run instead of just wasting space.

[FloW]

Yes, I am fully aware that the economy is not done (or even really started) by any stretch of the imagination.
This is exactly why I think that throwing some brainstorming ideas out there now is good, since (hopefully) there can still be changes and additions made.

Don't start running before you learn how to walk. Alex is known to change ideas even AFTER he decides to implement them in the game.
Hell, this game is far from being finished. Absolutely nothing is set in stone and everything is subject to change.

Once he starts displaying his own ideas for stations and trading and economy, we will see how much our overlord Alex thought about it. I suspect that he has several ideas going and will pick whatever seems the most interesting.

[UberWaffe]

Don't start running before you learn how to walk. Alex is known to change ideas even AFTER he decides to implement them in the game.
Hell, this game is far from being finished. Absolutely nothing is set in stone and everything is subject to change.

Once he starts displaying his own ideas for stations and trading and economy, we will see how much our overlord Alex thought about it. I suspect that he has several ideas going and will pick whatever seems the most interesting.

Oh, I'm sure that Alex has loads of great ideas for the economy already.
And again, I know the economy is not implemented yet. So this is more like brainstorming on how to walk rather than trying to run.

The fun thing about brainstorming is because it is just throwing ideas out there.
Something that holds true for any project execution is that (much like inertia in physics) the later a change of course is attempted, the harder it is to make.

So discussing the economy now does have some merit.

One thing that always bugged me when playing the Patrician games was that there were always these commodities like salt and basic food stuff like flour that would never sell for very much.

You would think the reason for these low earning commodities in those games was that while you can never make massive profits on the higher end commodities like iron tools and meat and furs, the demand for these commodities would be far more stable than demand for furs and meats would be. Year long contracts for example supplying these low earning commodities would net a modest but very stable income that selling the more luxurious commodities might not always bring back.

If this was in those games, there would be purpose then for these commodities in the long run instead of just wasting space.

Yeah, having a nice spread of low-profit-but-stable products to high-profit-but-risky products is always nice.
And having product prices (locally at least) determined by supply and demand usually makes for very interesting and dynamic trade runs.
If you have only a few central consumers (i.e. planets) driving all the demand, then it becomes rather easy to tweak the economy and have the effect ripple all the way through.
And logically it makes sense that there would be higher demand for food, than say for luxury electronics. (Hey, people have to eat.)
Similar to maslow hierarchy of needs, more basic needs should be met before people have higher demands.

Also, as you mention, being able to make long term contracts for supply of products makes a nice way to reduce risk (i.e. getting there and another trader beat you to the punch). Though such contracts should lower profits as well.

[mostmodest]

I'm kind of reminded of the Spore space stage here, where you buy 20 red spice for $500 each in one system and sell them for $2k each in another.
I'm assuming prices would differ for different goods in different systems.

[UberWaffe]

@mostmodest
I'm assuming you haven't played any of the X series yet. (X beyond the frontier, X3 Terran Conflict, etc.)
But basically if a station is low on something it wants, it offers a high price. (Implies there is low supply, so they pay a premium for resources)
If already has lots of stock of something it buys, then it offers a low price. (Implies  there is high supply, so they aren't worried about getting more)
Similar for selling, if a station has little of something it sells, then it asks a lot for it. (Implies there is high demand, so they cash in)
If a station has lots of something it sells, then it asks a little for it. (Implies there is little demand, so it tries to get people to buy by making it cheap)

Systems typically focus on producing a single product, so overall you have a good change of getting that product for cheap in that system.
For example, if a system has ten smelters that turn asteroid ore into metals, then the demand there for asteroid ore will be high (all ten of the smelters want some).
And metal will be cheap (ten smelters all producing metal will mean lots of metal for sale).


Distance from supplier naturally makes the price of something go up, since it is likely the transports will fall to pirates, or the merchants will simply sell to somewhere closer.
I mean, if I have to travel ten sectors to sell for only 1 credit more, then I won't bother.
But if ten sectors away a buyer offers 10,000 credits more... well.