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Author Topic: Impoving Armor  (Read 19421 times)

Reshy

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2013, 03:40:36 PM »

Why is regeneration hull or armor 'worse' than regenerating shields?
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2013, 03:43:09 PM »

Fight against shadow order and you'll know why, or fight against my new super capital in my DEV.
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Pelly

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2013, 04:04:03 PM »

Why is regeneration hull or armor 'worse' than regenerating shields?
Yeah its ridiculous the only way to make them more balanced is to have a really low regen rate, low armour and a lower hull...but still requires about 3 ships of the same class to kill.
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Reshy

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2013, 04:12:47 PM »

Fight against shadow order and you'll know why, or fight against my new super capital in my DEV.


Never had problems with shadow order actually.  Most of the time my ships can simply pressure them into overloading.  Also Mod ships don't apply anyway.


Why is regeneration hull or armor 'worse' than regenerating shields?
Yeah its ridiculous the only way to make them more balanced is to have a really low regen rate, low armour and a lower hull...but still requires about 3 ships of the same class to kill.

Are you speculating or speaking from experience?  I rarely see ships that regenerate, even then they typically regenerate hull and have either phase or overpowered shielding.
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LazyWizard

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2013, 12:38:08 AM »

Why is regeneration hull or armor 'worse' than regenerating shields?

Three things:
  • If both shields and passive defenses regenerate, you can switch between them at will to allow the other to recover:
    "My flux is high, better take a few shots on armor."
    "Okay, I took a lot of armor damage, I should hunker down behind my shields for a while to recover!"
    Combined with certain ships (*cough* Paragon) this would allow you to make game-breaking tanks, especially combined with the skill perks that lets you passively vent hard flux and regenerate hull (which are already ridiculous when combined).
  • If you regenerate hull/armor there's incentive to avoid ending the fight until you've healed as much as you can to avoid repair costs.
  • Damage is reduced noticeably if there's even a slight amount of armor left in a location. If armor regenerated, that ship effectively has permanent damage reduction.
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Sonlirain

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2013, 03:36:07 AM »

Oh so i'll build upon my idea some more.

Armor mods can ONLY be mounted ONE at a time.

Regenerative armor - regenerates 1% armor per second and REMOVES shields since shiled generators interfere with the workings of nanites on board
Also EMP damage temporarily disables the nanites in the immediate area.
(would be awesome on low tech ships like Onslaught that usually don't depend on shields all that much BUT it still takes away the shield that might save you from a wing od bombers launching reapers at you.)

Energy absorbing armor - Resistance to energy projectiles (made mostly for fighting high tech ships with low tech that DEPEND on armor).

Reflective armor - Beams and projectiles might bounce off the armored areas when impacting at a low angle dealing 5% of their damage to the armor in the area.
Armor damage reduces the chance of bouncing projectiles (i think this one would find use mostly on mid tech ships).

Heavy armor - Overall thicker (already in game but would be buffed).

Flux dissipating armor - Increases flux dissipation by x% and allows y% hard flux dissipation to continue while shields are active.
The porous structure also increases its resistance to HE damage BUT decreases its resistance to kinetic damage. Both types do 125% damage to it.
(I think it would be mostly a no brainer for high tech ships since they dont usually depend on armor. However note that lowering shields when a hail of kinetic projectiles are incoming might not be a good idea with this mod installed)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 03:37:54 AM by Sonlirain »
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xenoargh

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2013, 10:46:15 AM »

We can't do some of that; for example, the weapon values vs. armor for various types of weapons is hard-coded and there aren't any MutableStats covering those cases yet.
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Reshy

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2013, 11:27:01 PM »

Why is regeneration hull or armor 'worse' than regenerating shields?

Three things:
  • If both shields and passive defenses regenerate, you can switch between them at will to allow the other to recover:
    "My flux is high, better take a few shots on armor."
    "Okay, I took a lot of armor damage, I should hunker down behind my shields for a while to recover!"
    Combined with certain ships (*cough* Paragon) this would allow you to make game-breaking tanks, especially combined with the skill perks that lets you passively vent hard flux and regenerate hull (which are already ridiculous when combined).
  • If you regenerate hull/armor there's incentive to avoid ending the fight until you've healed as much as you can to avoid repair costs.
  • Damage is reduced noticeably if there's even a slight amount of armor left in a location. If armor regenerated, that ship effectively has permanent damage reduction.

Did you mod it in and see how it works?  If not I'd like to see how it works out, actually.
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Foxtrot

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2013, 04:19:21 PM »

There's not much i can add to this suggestion but i gotta say, the armor mods sound totally awesome and useful, but why not just have the regeneration cost supplies too? You have to get the pure mass from somewhere
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Steven Shi

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2013, 08:16:35 AM »

Back in June last year when the game was first released with the campaign map, I increased the value of all the ship armour by a factor of 7.

The high armour made the combat far more tactical and required you to focus fire on the  damaged sections rather than simply hit the ship in general. Personally, the first thing I'll do upon receiving v1.0 is alter the armour value again - the current vessels are too squishy for my idea of sci-fi ship combat. 
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SatchelCharge

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2013, 11:45:45 AM »

In my humble opinion armor definitely needs is to be slightly more effective in protecting weapons/engines. I think SQW has a point too about general squishiness. Armor mods would be cool if done right.
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Nanostrike

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2013, 08:51:49 AM »

To buff armor the best right now, I think some of the Armor-boosting Hull Mods need some tweaks.

1) The really good ones (Heavy Armor, Reinforced Bulkheads, ect) are fairly high-up on the tech tree, requiring a lot of investment to get.
2) They cost a good bit of OP and skill points while STILL having pretty big disadvantages (Heavy armor decreasing maneuverability, for example)
3) Some give too minor of a benefit for their OP cost, currently (Automated Repair Unit is a big offender here)


Tweaking some OP costs, putting some at lower skill ranks, and possibly taking out or reducing some of their disadvantages would be the way to go, IMO.  Regenerating armor should be ship-specific system, if anything.  Otherwise capital ships become ridiculous and could literally just wait for the enemy to run out of ammo on their powerful armor.
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ciago92

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2013, 09:40:56 AM »

*snip*
wait for the enemy to run out of ammo on their powerful armor.

isn't one of the .6 changes going to be limitless ammo for ballistics as well? or did I mishear that?
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Nanostrike

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2013, 07:03:44 PM »

*snip*
wait for the enemy to run out of ammo on their powerful armor.

isn't one of the .6 changes going to be limitless ammo for ballistics as well? or did I mishear that?

A mod changed that.  1.6, if anything, is supposed to make the ammo situation worse by having Ballistic Weapons not even be fully loaded if your Combat Readiness is low.
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Vinya

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Re: Impoving Armor
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2013, 01:59:06 PM »

If armor repair was determined by [(#crew + crewskilllevel) / (armormax/currentarmor)]/ Second I could see it being useful, but only on larger ships with the crew to maintain it.
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