Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 141

Author Topic: [0.6.2a] Exerelin - Dynamic Sector and Faction War - v0.644  (Read 917190 times)

Zaphide

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #180 on: May 13, 2013, 02:50:20 PM »

relics faithoper main gun (Ultima) build in weapon is missing
Spoiler
[close]

+ elders got too much personell transport & they 2 capital ships are 0 crew needed  :P
i dunno how about fighting with faithoper is he got the Ultima or not

Thanks! Have fixed both issues for next version. The Faithoper delivered to the player was missing the built-in. It should be there in the AI controlled fleets.

I haven't dug through your diplomacy code, but if you are using how long you have been at war to determine when you should ally then it is probably the case where people who keep forcing a war against someone end up with a fully allied universe. It might be better to have two different sets of logic for war and alliance. Maybe something like:
Spoiler
Reliability = How many alliances you have broken. Maybe "forget one"(-1 to value) every (other?) week.
Neutrals = Factions that are not part of an "Alliance"
Alliance = A set of factions that are all allied with each other. Probably should make them more cohesive so that allies ally with ally's ally. No I can't think of a better way to put that.
Alliance Size = If you are able to easily track it, I would say judge Alliance Size by the number of allied STATIONS not Factions.
Small Alliance = An Alliance with 10-15% alliance size or less. Could be compared to total number of stations or compared to the largest Alliance depending on your preference and or balance.
Civil War! = Up to half the Player Alliance may break off from the Alliance and start their own Alliance or all become Neutral. Chance to be hostile to player alliance based on Reliability
                and possibly number of factions at war with Player Alliance compared to Player Alliance remaining size.

Alliance :
What is the Player Alliance Size?
     0-40% - How long since the Player was last allied?
            Just declared war on ally this week - Nothing Happens.
            It hasn't been long since last Ally - Nothing Happens.
            Been a little while - Are there any neutrals?
                      No  - Is there a Alliance with +10% or more of your size?
                                    No - Is there an Alliance with -10% to +10% your Alliance Size?
                                                  No - Nothing Happens.
                                                  Yes - Are you at war with them?
                                                                 No - Nothing Happens.
                                                                 Yes - Chance to declare peace with someone at war, depending on Reliability and largest non-Player Alliance compared to Player Alliance. Higher Reliability,
                                                                         Higher Non Player Alliance Size and longer duration of the war with the Alliance increase chance of Declaring peace with target Alliance.
                                    Yes-Are you at war with them?
                                                  No- Nothing Happens.
                                                  Yes - Are there any Small Alliances that you are at peace with?
                                                                 No -  Are there any Small Alliances that you are at war with?
                                                                                   No - Haha you are being overwhelmed. SMALL chance of a Faction not more than 10% of the Alliance breaking away from them and joining you.
                                                                                   Yes - Chance to declare peace with the Small Alliance depending on Reliability and duration of war with the Alliance.
                                                                 Yes - Would your Alliance size be more than the largest Non Player Alliance Size +10% if you Allied with them?
                                                                                   No - Chance to ally with them depending on Reliability
                                                                                   Yes - Are they at war with the Largest Non Player Alliance?
                                                                                                   No - They declare war on the Largest Non Player Alliance and post a message implying they may join you later.
                                                                                                   Yes - Chance they will join your Alliance.
                      Yes - Declare an ally with a neutral.
     40%-90% - What is the largest non-Player Alliance?
            None to -41% of Player Alliance Size -Is there a Non Player Alliance?
                      No - Are there two or more neutrals?
                                   No - Chance of Civil War!
                                   Yes - Ally Neutrals together up to max of Player Alliance size + 10%
                      Yes - Ally neutral(s) to a Non Player Alliance with an increased chance of more neutrals the smaller the largest Non Player Alliance compared to the Player Alliance.
            -40% to -11% of Player Alliance size - Are there any neutrals?
                      No - chance of Civil war!
                      Yes - Ally a neutral to a Non Player Alliance.
            -10% to +10% of Player Alliance Size - Are you at war with the Largest non Player Alliance?
                      No - Might want to start. Chance of War being declared.
                      Yes - Excellent.
            +11% to +50% of Player Alliance Size- Are you at war with the Largest non Player Alliance?
                      No - War is declared. Possibly declaring a Final or Galactic war which has all remaining Alliances and neutrals join the Player Alliance or the largest Non Player Alliance.
                      Yes - Fun times. Chance of defection by a smaller Faction within the Largest Non Player Alliance. Increased chance with greater difference in Player Alliance and Non Player Alliance size.
            +51% - +100% of Player Alliance Size - Are you doing your math correctly?
                      No - Recheck your math. If Player Alliance Size is minimum of 40% of the total station count, and you have more than 50% larger than that opposing it, you have more than 100% of stations.
                             IE: Lets say 100 stations, Player owns minimum of 40, largest Non Player Faction has 50% more ( 40 + (50% of 40 = 20) 20 = 60) then 40 + 60 = 100 or all stations.
                      Yes - Very good, Carry on.
     90%-100% - Do you have any Non Player Factions in your Alliance?
            No - Really? You win....Wait no. REBELS! SPAWN MORE FACTIONS! KILL THE INFIDELS!
            Yes - They don't like your Monopoly and declare Civil WAR! Are you the largest Faction in the Player Alliance?
                      No - Split the Alliance with the largest Non Player Faction vs the Player faction going down the list and adding factions to whichever side is smallest at the time.
                      Yes - Are you more than half the Faction size?
                                 No - Split the Alliance with the largest Non Player Faction vs the Player faction going down the list and adding factions to whichever side is smallest at the time.
                                 Yes - EVERYONE IS AGAINST YOU! Crush the Dogs!. No real change in the mechanic, this would be passively done by the same algorithm that would do the last two items.
War :
No time right now.

This type of system would produce more of a Us VS Them kinda feel with emphasis on ending with two alliances, while still allowing third party alliance. This would ideally result in you having an ever growing alliance against you as you gain allies and or stations for your faction, while forcing you to eventually put down every other faction to rule the system as you are forced to constantly fight your old allies to continue your march toward a Totalitarianist Regime.Or whatever your faction believes in. And then it would all go to Hell in a Handbasket and you get to try to maintain order. If you implemented the logic and kept atleast one war going at all times, you wouldn't have to do much in the way of random wars or alliances because just the fact that a war is going on with atleast one faction or alliance that has atleast one station would keep the game changing and so the logic would just re-apply and continue progress. Also Players have been known to be %^$@s and mess things up occasionally when bored ::). You could do a simpler version of the logic with less care toward "balance" for non player factions to encourage multiple Alliances until they get absorbed into one side or the other.

If this sounds interesting to you let me know and I can flesh it out some more and include some war logic that isn't apocalyptic.
[close]
Unfortunately I don't know java, and don't have the time to dedicate to learning it right now or I would want to join in on this mod. I am more of a C and Perl kinda guy anyways. Anyways, Sorry for the mess and any gaping logic holes I left in the above, My lunch time is about run out and I need to get back to work.

TLDR:
I have thoughts about diplomacy, most of them boring.

Wow thanks for the in-depth ideas! :)

I am not a Java programmer either so if you delve through there is probably some wtf's in there :P

As a brief explanation, at the moment each faction has a 'slider' which is what they think of another faction.
E.g factionA -> FactionB = 10 and factionB -> factionA = -30
If the value of those two sliders result is above/below certain values then they can declare war/peace/alliance. The slider value is determined by a number of things, one of which is how long have we been at war/have we not had a war. I think the mega-alliance problem occurs as alliances do not break often enough, and mega-alliances tend to kill off other factions very easily (as a small war target satisfies their need for a war). So basically it ends up with a mega-alliance stomping on small individual factions.

As to your ideas, they are actually on the same track as mine. At the moment there is no 'if this is an ally of my ally I like them more' consideration, nor a 'my ally is at war with this faction so I dislike them more'. I think that will add a lot. Once that is done, the alliance size becomes a good factor in impacting the previous i.e 'if that faction is an ally of my ally then I like them more, but if the alliance is getting to big I'm getting restless/jealous/whatever' type of structure. I hadn't considered reliability but that's a great way to make certain factions more 'swingish', switching from one alliance to another more easily than a 'reliable' faction.

I have a massive aversion to hard coding things but I'm debating about giving factions certain 'traits' and relationship preferences to other factions e.g.
Relics have an innate dislike for the Council, but have a strong bond with the Nomads. The Reilcs are also fairly unreliable.
Or maybe randomly assigning traits and preferences at the start of a new game might be a better idea...
Logged

kupan9

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #181 on: May 14, 2013, 01:14:00 PM »

While having each Faction getting quirks, either randomly or intelligently designed, would definitely be fun I would hold off for now. With only one system and no ability to have menus or other ways of checking relations it would just feel to cluttered and hard to keep track of. You might want to add that to the list of "when I can add menus" items.
Logged

Talkie Toaster

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 256
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #182 on: May 14, 2013, 02:14:52 PM »

If you were trying to find pretexts for war, resources would be a good one. It's currently quite hard to figure out which resources your empire is lacking in, but it'd make sense for people to go to war with the factions that have a surfeit of whatever you're lacking.

Also, unfortunately the Council don't seem to get a bunch of ships delivered (list below)- which list would I edit to add them?
Spoiler
~CAP SHIPS~
CENTAUR
OVERLORD
VENATOR
VENATOR MK II

~CRUISERS~
KIWI
MUSTANG
MUSTANG MK II
RAVEN MK II
VULTURE CLASS

~DESTROYER~
ALLIANCE
PHANTOM
PREFECT

~FRIGATE~
AMBASSADOR
DEFENDER
SPARROW
[close]

Logged

Zaphide

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #183 on: May 14, 2013, 04:35:39 PM »

While having each Faction getting quirks, either randomly or intelligently designed, would definitely be fun I would hold off for now. With only one system and no ability to have menus or other ways of checking relations it would just feel to cluttered and hard to keep track of. You might want to add that to the list of "when I can add menus" items.

When possible, first thing I'll add is a diplomacy screen/display :)

If you were trying to find pretexts for war, resources would be a good one. It's currently quite hard to figure out which resources your empire is lacking in, but it'd make sense for people to go to war with the factions that have a surfeit of whatever you're lacking.

Also, unfortunately the Council don't seem to get a bunch of ships delivered (list below)- which list would I edit to add them?
Spoiler
~CAP SHIPS~
CENTAUR
OVERLORD
VENATOR
VENATOR MK II

~CRUISERS~
KIWI
MUSTANG
MUSTANG MK II
RAVEN MK II
VULTURE CLASS

~DESTROYER~
ALLIANCE
PHANTOM
PREFECT

~FRIGATE~
AMBASSADOR
DEFENDER
SPARROW
[close]



Thanks for the idea, I'll keep it in mind :)

As for missing ships, if you add the variants to the exerelinGenericFleet in the  council.faction file they will be delivered to the player and appear in attack/defense/rebel fleets. Also add them to exerelinOutSystemAttackFleet. I'll also add them for the next release (I probably forgot to add them initially).
Logged

Blade Skydancer

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #184 on: May 14, 2013, 10:27:33 PM »

Hey.

Played this mod when it was first released and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Before it was switched over to being a total-conversion, it was actually spawning my weapons that I had made for a mod of mine, which I thought was pretty awesome. Now, though, that's not possible. I was wondering if you could enlighten me as to how to add certain weapons to a faction's weapon list, as I cannot for the life of me find which file or files control which weapons spawn for which factions?
Logged

Zaphide

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #185 on: May 15, 2013, 01:18:54 AM »

Hey.

Played this mod when it was first released and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Before it was switched over to being a total-conversion, it was actually spawning my weapons that I had made for a mod of mine, which I thought was pretty awesome. Now, though, that's not possible. I was wondering if you could enlighten me as to how to add certain weapons to a faction's weapon list, as I cannot for the life of me find which file or files control which weapons spawn for which factions?

Glad you've been enjoying it :)

The weapon lists for factions are stored in data\scripts\world\exerelin\OutSystemSupplyConvoySpawnPoint.java in the method getFactionWeapons()
If you have your own faction added or running in tandam with another (instructions were further back in this thread, i'll add the instructions to the first post soon) you can add the weapons here.

If you just want to randomise the weapons for each delivery (which will pick a number from all weapons available), just comment out all the code (/* */) in the getFactionWeapons() method and leave the line
Code
return new String[]{}; 




Logged

Blade Skydancer

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #186 on: May 15, 2013, 10:38:35 AM »

Thanks a lot for your help, Zaph. :D
Logged

Talkie Toaster

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 256
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #187 on: May 15, 2013, 12:21:02 PM »

As for missing ships, if you add the variants to the exerelinGenericFleet in the  council.faction file they will be delivered to the player and appear in attack/defense/rebel fleets. Also add them to exerelinOutSystemAttackFleet. I'll also add them for the next release (I probably forgot to add them initially).
Great, thanks :).
Logged

Lopunny Zen

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #188 on: May 16, 2013, 11:00:59 AM »

It feels like my places dont produce as much ships as everyone else..and to top it off the neutrinos are way too busted because thanks to the auto-resolve not being fleshed out...things happen like the purifiers smashing into meteors and to make this mod turn bad is that the neutrinos always wind the auto resolve against my guys so even if i smash them myself they still swarm everywhere and takes my posts because the auto-resolve makes it that no matter what there guys are better then ours so the one ship...it can be a fighter squad..takes out three frigates on its own and usually the neutrinos win....has nobody seen this flaw yet...neutrinos ruin the experience because in the end they wind 90% of the battles...so theres no way to beat them...its just me...and even worse it hard protecting a capturing ship when they wonder off and fight people(even the neutrinos) and i cant slim their numbers v.v
Logged

kupan9

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #189 on: May 16, 2013, 02:08:57 PM »

It feels like my places dont produce as much ships as everyone else..and to top it off the neutrinos are way too busted because thanks to the auto-resolve not being fleshed out...things happen like the purifiers smashing into meteors and to make this mod turn bad is that the neutrinos always wind the auto resolve against my guys so even if i smash them myself they still swarm everywhere and takes my posts because the auto-resolve makes it that no matter what there guys are better then ours so the one ship...it can be a fighter squad..takes out three frigates on its own and usually the neutrinos win....has nobody seen this flaw yet...neutrinos ruin the experience because in the end they wind 90% of the battles...so theres no way to beat them...its just me...and even worse it hard protecting a capturing ship when they wonder off and fight people(even the neutrinos) and i cant slim their numbers v.v
You might want to check out the lower part of the first post, Specifically:
Restricting Certain Factions
It is very easy to restrict the possible factions:
 - Go to mods/Exerelin/data/scripts/world/exerelin/ExerelinData.java
 - Change the possibleFactions array (right at the top) to only list the factions you want to be available
   - Leave "player" and at least two other at a minimum
   - eg.
Code
private String[] possibleFactions = new String[] {"player", "hegemony", "tritachyon" };
- That's it! :)
I tend to agree that the Neutrinos aren't very fun. I am a little biased against them because they are DESIGNED to punish my play style of pimping out a single ship and personally wrecking fleets. But this thread isn't really the place to debate the merits of Neutrino balance. Zaphide has been nice enough to make an easy way to get rid of factions you don't like, it is pretty easy to do. To clarify, in case anyone needs it, the ExerelinData.java file isn't some mystic special format, it is able to be opened by pretty much any text editor. I personally use Notepad++, but I have verified that notepad works just fine if a bit messy because it doesn't use standard newline and tab formatted display. Wordpad displays it correctly.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 03:34:23 PM by kupan9 »
Logged

Lopunny Zen

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #190 on: May 16, 2013, 04:06:36 PM »

but neutrino's are unique and fun to fight in battle..its just the shield array makes all the auto-resolve stuff impossible to win....maybe we should tell the staff about this for next update
Logged

Zaphide

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #191 on: May 16, 2013, 04:12:12 PM »

It feels like my places dont produce as much ships as everyone else..and to top it off the neutrinos are way too busted because thanks to the auto-resolve not being fleshed out...things happen like the purifiers smashing into meteors and to make this mod turn bad is that the neutrinos always wind the auto resolve against my guys so even if i smash them myself they still swarm everywhere and takes my posts because the auto-resolve makes it that no matter what there guys are better then ours so the one ship...it can be a fighter squad..takes out three frigates on its own and usually the neutrinos win....has nobody seen this flaw yet...neutrinos ruin the experience because in the end they wind 90% of the battles...so theres no way to beat them...its just me...and even worse it hard protecting a capturing ship when they wonder off and fight people(even the neutrinos) and i cant slim their numbers v.v

Kupan9 has kindly responded to the Neutrino issue :) The only thing I'll add is that although the Neutrinos do better due to the auto-resolve, I would rather attempt to balance this on a system-wide basis (i.e. if Neutrino's are dominating then all other factions gang up on them) than tweaking individual factions up and down. If Alex tweaks the auto-resolve to more correctly estimate for the Neutrino's then even better :)

This week I have been fixing a few issues with the supply convoy and fleet resource cost calculations, which had been resulting in smaller/less fleets all round, especially for the player. I'll hopefully have a new version soon which should fix this.
Logged

Lopunny Zen

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #192 on: May 16, 2013, 04:39:20 PM »

dont you get it..even if they gang up on them they still fight one on one and they take little to no damage ever...theres no way you can gang up on them...its not like they can jump into the battles and help
Logged

Zaphide

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #193 on: May 16, 2013, 05:12:11 PM »

dont you get it..even if they gang up on them they still fight one on one and they take little to no damage ever...theres no way you can gang up on them...its not like they can jump into the battles and help

I am trying to say there is nothing I can do about the auto-resolve, and I don't want to change one of the Neutrino factions defining differences.

Therefore the next best thing I can do is attempt to balance it within the game systems I do control (inter faction relationships, max fleet sizes, resource costs), and allow the easy removal of certain factions if people don't like playing with them.

I understand the frustration but I don't want to write a lot of edge case code, and then have Alex change the auto-resolve mechanic. I guess it's one of the downsides with using a mod in development, that's for a game in development :)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 05:44:23 PM by Zaphide »
Logged

Lopunny Zen

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #194 on: May 16, 2013, 05:50:54 PM »

i guess..i hope they solve it soon...
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 141