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Author Topic: [0.6.2a] Exerelin - Dynamic Sector and Faction War - v0.644  (Read 917210 times)

Zaphide

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #165 on: May 10, 2013, 02:52:50 PM »

New version as promised:

Code
0.5
 - Added Interstellar Federation
 - Added Relics (Purifiers + Elder)
 - Added OmniFactory option
 - Added missing weapons from Hegemony, TriTachyon, Pirate, Independent, Neutrino convoys
 - Added missing ships from Neutrino faction
 - Changed faction selection list to split over two screens
 - Fixed issue where In-System supply fleets could spawn with less than minimum crew

Y'know, the reason I was sad when I switched to this from Uomoz's was because I didn't have my favorite faction.  Obviously, that has changed.  And it seems you've formally integrated OmniFac?  Neat!  I'll have to re-download and figure out what I want to mess with next.

Yeah just supporting the OmniFactory was going to be 99% of the work (it was more complicated than I thought) so I figured I might as well just include it and makes things easier :)

This version *should* be save compatible.
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LostInTheWired

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #166 on: May 10, 2013, 03:16:18 PM »

Y'know, the reason I was sad when I switched to this from Uomoz's was because I didn't have my favorite faction.  Obviously, that has changed.  And it seems you've formally integrated OmniFac?  Neat!  I'll have to re-download and figure out what I want to mess with next.

Yeah just supporting the OmniFactory was going to be 99% of the work (it was more complicated than I thought) so I figured I might as well just include it and makes things easier :)

This version *should* be save compatible.

Well, I'm the type who can't leave well enough alone, of course.  XD  I have some ideas I'd love to see in the mod.  I may end up adding it myself.  If I do that, do you want me to pm anything to you?  Wouldn't want to get annoying or anything.  You'd be welcome to use anything I added without worrying about anything.  It's just if I make it, why not share it?  Would be silly to just keep it to myself.
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Fantastic Chimni

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #167 on: May 10, 2013, 06:41:34 PM »

Is there any way to grab a station ourselves to use as a base? I like not getting ships for free from my allied stations, but I dislike having to pay money to store the ships/weapons/crew im not currently using.

I miss having an empty station I could just dump gear into without having to buy it back...
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Zaphide

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #168 on: May 10, 2013, 11:59:09 PM »

Well, I'm the type who can't leave well enough alone, of course.  XD  I have some ideas I'd love to see in the mod.  I may end up adding it myself.  If I do that, do you want me to pm anything to you?  Wouldn't want to get annoying or anything.  You'd be welcome to use anything I added without worrying about anything.  It's just if I make it, why not share it?  Would be silly to just keep it to myself.

Yep essentially that thinking is what drove me to build Exerelin, why not share it with others :)

Definitely PM me if it is something you think would be worthwhile folding back into the mod (I would of course credit you for it) as I have a few things on the roadmap for it myself.

Is there any way to grab a station ourselves to use as a base? I like not getting ships for free from my allied stations, but I dislike having to pay money to store the ships/weapons/crew im not currently using.

I miss having an empty station I could just dump gear into without having to buy it back...

You mean like the abandoned storage facility? Yeah I'll add it in for the next release, as I'll probably remove the 'free-transfer at your faction stations' option and move Exerelin to the 'things cost money but you get paid wages (and danger pay!)' option, as (in my mind) this seems to work a bit better, especially with the OmniFactory.
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Lopunny Zen

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #169 on: May 11, 2013, 12:27:18 PM »

Dude..you should put the hawkin fleet in...the ships look very nice and sleek and they seem very fun :)...btw it crashes the moment it loads..i dont know why either :(
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 12:34:00 PM by Lopunny Zen »
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Dekeon

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #170 on: May 12, 2013, 04:26:51 PM »

Dude..you should put the hawkin fleet in...the ships look very nice and sleek and they seem very fun

I'll second the Hawken fleet addition as I really like how those ships look, and the mod has two factions in it, Hawken and Orthin(I think I'm remembering the names right).
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Lopunny Zen

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #171 on: May 12, 2013, 05:56:20 PM »

WAIT...important faction to add...Thule Legacy...they are vanilla balanced and there fun and interesting :)
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Zaphide

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #172 on: May 12, 2013, 06:24:14 PM »

Dude..you should put the hawkin fleet in...the ships look very nice and sleek and they seem very fun :)...btw it crashes the moment it loads..i dont know why either :(

Hmmm although the Hawken fleet ships do look nice they are not really the same style as the rest. I probably won't be adding them in the near future sorry.

A few replies back I outlined a couple of ways to put factions in yourself.

WAIT...important faction to add...Thule Legacy...they are vanilla balanced and there fun and interesting :)

Yeah I'll be adding Thules Legacy soon, Thule has just released and update and I just want to wait till everything is final with that before adding them.
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Augure

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #173 on: May 12, 2013, 08:40:54 PM »

Nice mod. The dynamic system is cool.

It's a bit frustrating to be in peace with the whole galaxy. But if I break peace with one faction, several factions attack me (alliance system) and it's hard if to not be surrounded and not to loose my base(s).

In my party, Blackrock dominate the system, I don't understand why. Sometimes rebel Blackrock come but they don't help very much. I try to help my faction to defend / attack nearby Blackrock but my faction doesn't have enough (supply?) ships to take over their bases.

I have a good fleet and i can beat every encounter whith automatic battle. A little more challenge (biggest fleet for cpu) and a counter against large faction would be nice :)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 08:42:28 PM by Augure »
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XeroLogik

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #174 on: May 12, 2013, 10:18:29 PM »

So what are some good 'optimal' settings? I've started a few games in Exerelin, but finding a good setup isn't easy. You create too many planets and they overlap like mad, which (as well as a problem with number of stations) can cause defense fleets to just perpetually smash into each other. Too many factions and you can easily lose track of the politics.

9-12 planets seems good to keep everything looking well, but I have yet to figure out a good balance with number of stations and number of factions. Anyone able to comment on what good ratios seem to be, or at what point things tend to get a little too excessive/underwheming?
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kupan9

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #175 on: May 13, 2013, 12:46:33 AM »

A couple of notes after having lost time played the mod for the time I should have been sleeping evening.

One, There should be some limit on the percentage of the universe that can be allied. The rest can be neutral, but it leads to some wonky politics when to many are allied at once.

Two, Could you make it so only factions that actually still have a station are the target of war declarations?

Three, When an AI fleet is near an allied station (AI or Player) that is being taken over it would be useful if they actually stopped it. Considering the basic fleet behavior this one is probably the most irritating to do.

Four, I assume you can't do anything about this but if you can force a garbage cleanup or something every minute or so to make the stations change colors that would be great.

What led to this post was primarily the first two. Just now I was cruising the galaxy looking for some trouble (too many allied factions), when my faction and all the other allied factions declare war on the Shadowyards Heavy Industries. YES! So I tab and start browsing around the map to try to find a SHI fleet. No luck. So I spend the next 5 minutes checking each of the 30 stations manually for a SHI station to be ready for when a fleet spawns. Not a single station. I double checked. Well, that was disappointing. Anyways, Love the mod. Thanks for adding in the Interstellar Federation.
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Zaphide

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #176 on: May 13, 2013, 01:04:11 AM »

Thanks for the feedback everyone :)

Nice mod. The dynamic system is cool.

It's a bit frustrating to be in peace with the whole galaxy. But if I break peace with one faction, several factions attack me (alliance system) and it's hard if to not be surrounded and not to loose my base(s).

In my party, Blackrock dominate the system, I don't understand why. Sometimes rebel Blackrock come but they don't help very much. I try to help my faction to defend / attack nearby Blackrock but my faction doesn't have enough (supply?) ships to take over their bases.

I have a good fleet and i can beat every encounter whith automatic battle. A little more challenge (biggest fleet for cpu) and a counter against large faction would be nice :)

Yeah I'm going to build the faction relationship system up a bit more to *hopefully* auto-counter a leading faction. At the moment if a faction dominates the system it's very difficult to dislodge them.

So what are some good 'optimal' settings? I've started a few games in Exerelin, but finding a good setup isn't easy. You create too many planets and they overlap like mad, which (as well as a problem with number of stations) can cause defense fleets to just perpetually smash into each other. Too many factions and you can easily lose track of the politics.

9-12 planets seems good to keep everything looking well, but I have yet to figure out a good balance with number of stations and number of factions. Anyone able to comment on what good ratios seem to be, or at what point things tend to get a little too excessive/underwheming?

The planet/station overlap will come and go, as all of them orbit at different speeds.

I tend to agree that 9-12 planets is good, with 15-25 stations and 3 factions (+ the players one). This was what it was initially designed towards (with only the vanilla factions) but having said that, my favorite games have been with the maximum planets/stations and 3 factions, or 3 planets and 10 stations with 1 other faction.

I'm a little unhappy with how factions come to the system later in the game and at the moment I tend to play my games with respawn off. I think I'll add a setting so that it will respawn factions, but ONLY the factions that started in the system. At the moment it can become pretty chaotic late game!

A couple of notes after having lost time played the mod for the time I should have been sleeping evening.

One, There should be some limit on the percentage of the universe that can be allied. The rest can be neutral, but it leads to some wonky politics when to many are allied at once.

Two, Could you make it so only factions that actually still have a station are the target of war declarations?

Three, When an AI fleet is near an allied station (AI or Player) that is being taken over it would be useful if they actually stopped it. Considering the basic fleet behavior this one is probably the most irritating to do.

Four, I assume you can't do anything about this but if you can force a garbage cleanup or something every minute or so to make the stations change colors that would be great.

What led to this post was primarily the first two. Just now I was cruising the galaxy looking for some trouble (too many allied factions), when my faction and all the other allied factions declare war on the Shadowyards Heavy Industries. YES! So I tab and start browsing around the map to try to find a SHI fleet. No luck. So I spend the next 5 minutes checking each of the 30 stations manually for a SHI station to be ready for when a fleet spawns. Not a single station. I double checked. Well, that was disappointing. Anyways, Love the mod. Thanks for adding in the Interstellar Federation.

One:  I will be building more into the relationship system soon which should hopefully help alleviate things like this (I don't want to remove the chance completely but at the moment there is too much allying going on and not enough neutral/war). At the moment it's a bit *simple* still but I have a few ideas to improve it!

Two: This should actually already be the case, unless a faction is not in the system and is sending an out system attack fleet (they need to be at war with someone to take over their station). I will double check though.

Three: Perhaps I can do this. I'll have a think. It might cause more issues (leaving their own stations undefended etc.) but I agree it's a bit jarring when an ally does nothing :P I have a few ideas in this area so hopefully I can improve it!

Four: Sorry I wish I could fix this but I'm fairly sure I can't. You can save then load the save and it will update the colours but otherwise... :(
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 01:05:42 AM by Zaphide »
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theSONY

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #177 on: May 13, 2013, 05:24:46 AM »

relics faithoper main gun (Ultima) build in weapon is missing
Spoiler
[close]

+ elders got too much personell transport & they 2 capital ships are 0 crew needed  :P
i dunno how about fighting with faithoper is he got the Ultima or not
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-the ABOMINATION - in progress

TheKillerWolf

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #178 on: May 13, 2013, 10:39:02 AM »

yea on a previous save i had. i actually looted the ultima. i wasnt able to slot it on anything at the time tho.
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kupan9

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Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
« Reply #179 on: May 13, 2013, 12:14:31 PM »

I haven't dug through your diplomacy code, but if you are using how long you have been at war to determine when you should ally then it is probably the case where people who keep forcing a war against someone end up with a fully allied universe. It might be better to have two different sets of logic for war and alliance. Maybe something like:
Spoiler
Reliability = How many alliances you have broken. Maybe "forget one"(-1 to value) every (other?) week.
Neutrals = Factions that are not part of an "Alliance"
Alliance = A set of factions that are all allied with each other. Probably should make them more cohesive so that allies ally with ally's ally. No I can't think of a better way to put that.
Alliance Size = If you are able to easily track it, I would say judge Alliance Size by the number of allied STATIONS not Factions.
Small Alliance = An Alliance with 10-15% alliance size or less. Could be compared to total number of stations or compared to the largest Alliance depending on your preference and or balance.
Civil War! = Up to half the Player Alliance may break off from the Alliance and start their own Alliance or all become Neutral. Chance to be hostile to player alliance based on Reliability
                and possibly number of factions at war with Player Alliance compared to Player Alliance remaining size.

Alliance :
What is the Player Alliance Size?
     0-40% - How long since the Player was last allied?
            Just declared war on ally this week - Nothing Happens.
            It hasn't been long since last Ally - Nothing Happens.
            Been a little while - Are there any neutrals?
                      No  - Is there a Alliance with +10% or more of your size?
                                    No - Is there an Alliance with -10% to +10% your Alliance Size?
                                                  No - Nothing Happens.
                                                  Yes - Are you at war with them?
                                                                 No - Nothing Happens.
                                                                 Yes - Chance to declare peace with someone at war, depending on Reliability and largest non-Player Alliance compared to Player Alliance. Higher Reliability,
                                                                         Higher Non Player Alliance Size and longer duration of the war with the Alliance increase chance of Declaring peace with target Alliance.
                                    Yes-Are you at war with them?
                                                  No- Nothing Happens.
                                                  Yes - Are there any Small Alliances that you are at peace with?
                                                                 No -  Are there any Small Alliances that you are at war with?
                                                                                   No - Haha you are being overwhelmed. SMALL chance of a Faction not more than 10% of the Alliance breaking away from them and joining you.
                                                                                   Yes - Chance to declare peace with the Small Alliance depending on Reliability and duration of war with the Alliance.
                                                                 Yes - Would your Alliance size be more than the largest Non Player Alliance Size +10% if you Allied with them?
                                                                                   No - Chance to ally with them depending on Reliability
                                                                                   Yes - Are they at war with the Largest Non Player Alliance?
                                                                                                   No - They declare war on the Largest Non Player Alliance and post a message implying they may join you later.
                                                                                                   Yes - Chance they will join your Alliance.
                      Yes - Declare an ally with a neutral.
     40%-90% - What is the largest non-Player Alliance?
            None to -41% of Player Alliance Size -Is there a Non Player Alliance?
                      No - Are there two or more neutrals?
                                   No - Chance of Civil War!
                                   Yes - Ally Neutrals together up to max of Player Alliance size + 10%
                      Yes - Ally neutral(s) to a Non Player Alliance with an increased chance of more neutrals the smaller the largest Non Player Alliance compared to the Player Alliance.
            -40% to -11% of Player Alliance size - Are there any neutrals?
                      No - chance of Civil war!
                      Yes - Ally a neutral to a Non Player Alliance.
            -10% to +10% of Player Alliance Size - Are you at war with the Largest non Player Alliance?
                      No - Might want to start. Chance of War being declared.
                      Yes - Excellent.
            +11% to +50% of Player Alliance Size- Are you at war with the Largest non Player Alliance?
                      No - War is declared. Possibly declaring a Final or Galactic war which has all remaining Alliances and neutrals join the Player Alliance or the largest Non Player Alliance.
                      Yes - Fun times. Chance of defection by a smaller Faction within the Largest Non Player Alliance. Increased chance with greater difference in Player Alliance and Non Player Alliance size.
            +51% - +100% of Player Alliance Size - Are you doing your math correctly?
                      No - Recheck your math. If Player Alliance Size is minimum of 40% of the total station count, and you have more than 50% larger than that opposing it, you have more than 100% of stations.
                             IE: Lets say 100 stations, Player owns minimum of 40, largest Non Player Faction has 50% more ( 40 + (50% of 40 = 20) 20 = 60) then 40 + 60 = 100 or all stations.
                      Yes - Very good, Carry on.
     90%-100% - Do you have any Non Player Factions in your Alliance?
            No - Really? You win....Wait no. REBELS! SPAWN MORE FACTIONS! KILL THE INFIDELS!
            Yes - They don't like your Monopoly and declare Civil WAR! Are you the largest Faction in the Player Alliance?
                      No - Split the Alliance with the largest Non Player Faction vs the Player faction going down the list and adding factions to whichever side is smallest at the time.
                      Yes - Are you more than half the Faction size?
                                 No - Split the Alliance with the largest Non Player Faction vs the Player faction going down the list and adding factions to whichever side is smallest at the time.
                                 Yes - EVERYONE IS AGAINST YOU! Crush the Dogs!. No real change in the mechanic, this would be passively done by the same algorithm that would do the last two items.
War :
No time right now.

This type of system would produce more of a Us VS Them kinda feel with emphasis on ending with two alliances, while still allowing third party alliance. This would ideally result in you having an ever growing alliance against you as you gain allies and or stations for your faction, while forcing you to eventually put down every other faction to rule the system as you are forced to constantly fight your old allies to continue your march toward a Totalitarianist Regime.Or whatever your faction believes in. And then it would all go to Hell in a Handbasket and you get to try to maintain order. If you implemented the logic and kept atleast one war going at all times, you wouldn't have to do much in the way of random wars or alliances because just the fact that a war is going on with atleast one faction or alliance that has atleast one station would keep the game changing and so the logic would just re-apply and continue progress. Also Players have been known to be %^$@s and mess things up occasionally when bored ::). You could do a simpler version of the logic with less care toward "balance" for non player factions to encourage multiple Alliances until they get absorbed into one side or the other.

If this sounds interesting to you let me know and I can flesh it out some more and include some war logic that isn't apocalyptic.
[close]
Unfortunately I don't know java, and don't have the time to dedicate to learning it right now or I would want to join in on this mod. I am more of a C and Perl kinda guy anyways. Anyways, Sorry for the mess and any gaping logic holes I left in the above, My lunch time is about run out and I need to get back to work.

TLDR:
I have thoughts about diplomacy, most of them boring.
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