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[Admiral Loverod]

I want to start by saying that this is a very good mod, and I can tell a lot of work has gone into it. It's just awesome in general, and feels very full featured.

I've been having a problem, though. My games don't want to load. If I try to load a save game it gets most of the way down the bar, then stops moving entirely. It's not a problem between different versions; all my games are from .58. I've been thinking it could be a problem with running the mod on a mac, but I don't really know.

Any help is much appreciated 

[Zaphide]

I want to start by saying that this is a very good mod, and I can tell a lot of work has gone into it. It's just awesome in general, and feels very full featured.

I've been having a problem, though. My games don't want to load. If I try to load a save game it gets most of the way down the bar, then stops moving entirely. It's not a problem between different versions; all my games are from .58. I've been thinking it could be a problem with running the mod on a mac, but I don't really know.

Any help is much appreciated 

Hi Vlitzen,

Thank you for the praise

The load game issue is a fairly common one and can be somewhat solved by changing the memory levels allocated to StarSector. See the following for details:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=1822.msg102996#msg102996

Changing the lower and upper memory levels to 512/512 or 1024/1024 seem to have helped a lot of people.

Unfortunately it is an issue with StarSector itself and usually only occurs when a lot of textures are loaded (like in a compilation mod like Exerelin). By increasing the memory it only really extends the game time, and it will eventually hit the same wall. If you continue to have issues I would perhaps limit the number of other factions (in the options at the start of a new game) to 1/3/6.

[Zaphide]

In case anyone prefers this, I have setup a (DEV) version of the mod that does not contain any extra factions:
https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.58.zip

It will support the factions that are included in the normal version (except for Relics) but you will need to download them separately and run concurrently. A couple of factions were slightly amended for use in Exerelin so the experience may not be quite the same.

This version will also support the Tore Up Plenty additional starting ships. Tore Up Plenty also needs to be downloaded separately and run concurrently.

The main reason for this version is if you are having trouble with memory constraints and/or save game issues, you can pick and choose which factions get loaded into StarSector, which should reduce the errors. The downside is it is not a single download.

EDIT: I probably should add that this version is similar to a DEV version, there may be some rough edges

[Silver Silence]

Maintaining two versions of the mod sounds like it could become quite a chore, but at the same time, I kinda like this idea of Exerelin with no additional factions.

The way I see it (with my limited (read: no) experience of Java), one could set up a sort of framework for the factions to fill. So then, if the faction is present, Exerelin has all the fleets for that faction all laid out with no need to mess around on the part of the user. This would make it easier than the current system of having to manually integrate the faction and set up it's fleets appropriately as it's already been done by you, Zaphide. The problem my limited experience sees, is that when the faction's not present, all this extra code is referring to non-existent stuff, which will make Starsector go "OHGODWHY" and spit out errors and crashes. See any sort of typo in variant and faction files for such errors. Again, my limited experience figures that a check could be made that hopefully doesn't throw an error. If a faction is present, load it's framework, if no such faction is present, then this is not the code you are looking for.

[Zaphide]

Maintaining two versions of the mod sounds like it could become quite a chore, but at the same time, I kinda like this idea of Exerelin with no additional factions.

The way I see it (with my limited (read: no) experience of Java), one could set up a sort of framework for the factions to fill. So then, if the faction is present, Exerelin has all the fleets for that faction all laid out with no need to mess around on the part of the user. This would make it easier than the current system of having to manually integrate the faction and set up it's fleets appropriately as it's already been done by you, Zaphide. The problem my limited experience sees, is that when the faction's not present, all this extra code is referring to non-existent stuff, which will make Starsector go "OHGODWHY" and spit out errors and crashes. See any sort of typo in variant and faction files for such errors. Again, my limited experience figures that a check could be made that hopefully doesn't throw an error. If a faction is present, load it's framework, if no such faction is present, then this is not the code you are looking for.

This is exactly how it works already Exerelin is just a framework, there is no faction specific code. To create a no modded factions version all I have done is remove the other mods texture and resource files. There are a few extra lines of code to detect whether a mod is installed but that's it. Maintaining the two versions will be simple

The no included factions version still supports the other factions, you just have to run both mods together. No extra changes are required by the user

[Silver Silence]

I think I will still continue to play just using the full download of Exerelin, but it'll be good for the people who cry OP in the direction of the Neutrino or the Council. I also really need to play Exerelin with the Hiigarans and the Bushi involved. I've yet to try the Bushi and now might be a good a time as any.

[Zaphide]

I think I will still continue to play just using the full download of Exerelin, but it'll be good for the people who cry OP in the direction of the Neutrino or the Council. I also really need to play Exerelin with the Hiigarans and the Bushi involved. I've yet to try the Bushi and now might be a good a time as any.

Yeah I suspect the single download will still be the most used version. The no included factions is also an option for those that suffer from crashes

The Bushi are great I haven't played with the Hiigarans much though.

[xenoargh]

I've had a second to take a look at this.

It's neat; the extended way you've generated and manage the System, alliances and all that is great.  It's a lot cleaner than my early attempts and certainly a lot more complete.

What files would I have to change to make my factions, weapons and other things fit into the mod's framework?  I'm rather interested in seeing what it's like to have a three-way war with the Glaug and seeing the bases change hands and so forth.

The main issue here is that what I've got is not a faction mod.  I basically built a TC but it's mainly concerned with completely starting over again, in terms of weapon balance and physics and a bunch of other core stuff; none of what I've got plays very nicely with others. 

What would I need to hack to get that done, and if I do it, can I release it?

[xenoargh]

I got it done- not too hard, really  

I need to hack in the ShipLists / WeaponList methods I was using to give each Faction unique ships / weapons (it's really easier to keep those files separated for easier maintenance; can't wait 'til we can make Faction tags part of JSON descriptors and read them from the files without having to build lists all the time, but it's working at a basic level.  I also need to adjust the fleets and suchlike; the different factions have unique fleets now, with all 4 of the core Factions using unique ship lists. 

A few questions:

1.  My character joined Hegemony. Now my fleet is Hegemony brown; it's hard to see when lots of Hegemony fleets are around.  Is there any way to fix that?
2.  Shouldn't mining asteroids generate a unique resource?
3.  How is capturing of Stations triggered?  Is it the presence of the Atlas in the fleet, or just the named fleet being within X distance?  I'd rather have more realistic attacking fleets so that attack / defense matchups were a little different.
4.  One idea I've had for a while is that each Station should have a fleet that is forced to stay put at its position, keeping the player out of bases that are hostile to them.  This would make joining a side a bit more interesting, because we couldn't just go to a hostile base and buy / sell ships and guns; the current penalty of merely not being allowed to insta-repair is far too lenient, imo. 

Any ideas about how to get this done?  I thought about doing an iterator and just matching up the nearest Station that's of the same Faction, then moving the fleet to the Station's location but I'm not sure where your timing loop is and this has to be done every frame.

[Zaphide]

I've had a second to take a look at this.

It's neat; the extended way you've generated and manage the System, alliances and all that is great.  It's a lot cleaner than my early attempts and certainly a lot more complete.

What files would I have to change to make my factions, weapons and other things fit into the mod's framework?  I'm rather interested in seeing what it's like to have a three-way war with the Glaug and seeing the bases change hands and so forth.

The main issue here is that what I've got is not a faction mod.  I basically built a TC but it's mainly concerned with completely starting over again, in terms of weapon balance and physics and a bunch of other core stuff; none of what I've got plays very nicely with others. 

What would I need to hack to get that done, and if I do it, can I release it?

Yeah I'm fairly happy with the approach. There's still a few bits here and there which aren't great but it's mainly because I haven't fixed them up and/or can't fix yet.

You will only run into issues if you rely on generators (as Exerelin overrides generators.csv) and any initial character stuff (as Exerelin overrides CharacterCreationPluginImpl.java). If you can avoid this, then you should be able to run the mods side by side. If you want to change these then you will need to merge the two mods.

Apart from those two, everything else should be fairly straightforward Exerelin only really changes the campaign level stuff.

Start from the factions not included version of Exerelin, as it has removed most of the extra assets (that you probably don't want):
 - Add your factions to ExerelinData.java
   - You can add it to the array of possibleFactions (remove the other factions if you don't want them)
   - Or you can add a check for a class from your mod to addModdedFactionsToList() and add the appropriate faction ID's if that class is loaded
 - Add your faction specific weapon sets to ExerelinUtils.getFactionWeapons()
  - If you don't, it will just add randoms
 - ExerelinUtils.isCapitalInFleet() checks for atlas-like ship specs for station takeover fleets so you may need to add your equivalents to that
 - There are a few of other methods at the bottom of ExerelinUtils to do with mining checks you may want to add more ship specs too
   - Depends on how much you are changing
 - Check ExerelinUtils.addRandomFactionShipsToCargo() in case you need to add exceptions to translate from ship spec to hull spec
  - There are some examples already in there
 - Finally, add the Exerelin specific fleets to your faction file
  - See the blackrock, bushi or hiigaran ones for the best examples

A while back I had Exerelin merged with Ironclads and it worked fairly well

Feel free to release it but maybe just credit

Haha beaten

[Okim]

Hmm. With Ironclads you say. So its possible to run these two mods? Interesting ))

[Zaphide]

I got it done- not too hard, really  

I need to hack in the ShipLists / WeaponList methods I was using to give each Faction unique ships / weapons (it's really easier to keep those files separated for easier maintenance; can't wait 'til we can make Faction tags part of JSON descriptors and read them from the files without having to build lists all the time, but it's working at a basic level.  I also need to adjust the fleets and suchlike; the different factions have unique fleets now, with all 4 of the core Factions using unique ship lists. 

A few questions:

1.  My character joined Hegemony. Now my fleet is Hegemony brown; it's hard to see when lots of Hegemony fleets are around.  Is there any way to fix that?
2.  Shouldn't mining asteroids generate a unique resource?
3.  How is capturing of Stations triggered?  Is it the presence of the Atlas in the fleet, or just the named fleet being within X distance?  I'd rather have more realistic attacking fleets so that attack / defense matchups were a little different.
4.  One idea I've had for a while is that each Station should have a fleet that is forced to stay put at its position, keeping the player out of bases that are hostile to them.  This would make joining a side a bit more interesting, because we couldn't just go to a hostile base and buy / sell ships and guns; the current penalty of merely not being allowed to insta-repair is far too lenient, imo. 

Any ideas about how to get this done?  I thought about doing an iterator and just matching up the nearest Station that's of the same Faction, then moving the fleet to the Station's location but I'm not sure where your timing loop is and this has to be done every frame.

1. Sorry but that is pretty systemic to the whole framework. The player fleet is actually part of that faction, rather than the player faction. It just makes everything a lot easier that way. I had it the other way round initially but there was a lot of exception code all over the place
2. Maybe, but I didn't really think it would add too much depth. If there was actually a construction part of the game implemented then I think it could be worthwhile.
3. There are specific fleets that do station takeovers, see InSystemStationAttackShipSpawnPoint.java. Each station has one of these spawnpoints.
4. Nice idea Agree with the too lenient, I guess I'm a bit wary doing something like this in case Alex includes this kind of thing in StarSector 0.6 (which I think should be possible by changing the interaction dialogs)

To implement the last idea I would probably just create another spawnpoint for each station that spawns one fleet that then just has a loop (see InSystemStationAttackShipSpawnPoint.java or GasMiningFleetSpawnPoint.java for examples) to go to their anchor station. Essentially a while(true)

One thing I have noticed is that cycling through every asteroid, planet, station etc. to calculate distances is pretty slow, which is why each station actually calculates targets for fleets for that station, and it only updates every few days or so.

Hmm. With Ironclads you say. So its possible to run these two mods? Interesting ))

It is but there is a bit of work involved. Same approach for Ironclads as I set out above for Xeno's mod. It depends on whether your happy with the total randomness system generation. If you wanted to just use the diplomacy and fleet stuff, then it would be a bit more work (mainly just changing the SectorGen.java file but still...)

[cell]

In case anyone prefers this, I have setup a (DEV) version of the mod that does not contain any extra factions:
https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.58.zip

thanks for this. exactly what i wanted. the only "bug" ive noticed so far is that when starting a new game all the portraits are missing except for the default one. theres also a bunch of faction specific Atlas left in the codex, but im assuming that was left for compatibility.

[xenoargh]

1. Sorry but that is pretty systemic to the whole framework. The player fleet is actually part of that faction, rather than the player faction. It just makes everything a lot easier that way. I had it the other way round initially but there was a lot of exception code all over the place

Perhaps a faux "fleet", neutral to everybody but with a green color like the player's, should be spawned, then forced to stay at the player fleet's location?  They could have some sort of marker vessel type that gave them more FP than the player, keeping their ring a little bigger?  Not quite sure how to go about it, but it's a thought about how to handle this visually.  I don't think that in 0.6 we're going to be able to code UI elements that can constantly float over the rest of the game, so this might work.

[Zaphide]

1. Sorry but that is pretty systemic to the whole framework. The player fleet is actually part of that faction, rather than the player faction. It just makes everything a lot easier that way. I had it the other way round initially but there was a lot of exception code all over the place

Perhaps a faux "fleet", neutral to everybody but with a green color like the player's, should be spawned, then forced to stay at the player fleet's location?  They could have some sort of marker vessel type that gave them more FP than the player, keeping their ring a little bigger?  Not quite sure how to go about it, but it's a thought about how to handle this visually.  I don't think that in 0.6 we're going to be able to code UI elements that can constantly float over the rest of the game, so this might work.

Maybe, but I think it would be difficult to get right, and unfortunately you could always just click on the fleet and it would bring up the comm dialog box which would be annoying.

I haven't really had troubles determining which fleet is mine. It is always the center of screen and if you hover your mouse over it no fleet info box comes up