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Author Topic: [0.6.2a] Exerelin - Dynamic Sector and Faction War - v0.644  (Read 917174 times)

MrDavidoff

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #510 on: July 08, 2013, 07:38:28 AM »

Ah well, maybe I should start forwarding it on ;)

At this point, I was able to deduce, that Defender and probably Sparrow need a little nerfy.
 :D

No, on a serious note. I dont want this come out as if the player feedback was a bad thing, just that I think its not your duty.. task whatever to forward feedback for individual mods,
for your mod it makes perfect sense, but why should you get negative feedback for my s***, when I dont.. actually.. now that I think about it, I should like it, hm.. moving on.
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Carabus

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #511 on: July 08, 2013, 11:42:20 AM »

Indeed. Even though Zaphide has provided instructions to easily remove a faction's presence in Exerelin, people still feel the need to yabber on about the imbalance of the factions here. Even though Zaphide's OP states that his intention with Exerelin was to bring together several mods he liked, people still demand balancing.

We just exchanged each others experiences and opinions about factions balance. Noone demanded anything from Zaphide.
The best place to discuss factions balance in Exelerin is here, not in factions threads, as Exelerin has its own rules for creating fleets and selecting which ships from the certain faction are spawned so the faction may behave quite differently from what the original author created. A good example is the Vatican Mk. IV which spawns far too often in Exelerin, but I already have the code ready for Zaphide which will allow to change spawn chances of certain ships types.

As for balancing actual stats of certain ships I just wanted to see if others agree with what I observed about Sparrow. If we get a consensus that some ship is seriously OP then the faction creator will welcome some feedback about it. In this case MrDavidoff was then ahead of us and already made some balance changes.

@MrDavidoff:
Thank you for your fixes. Also I will post balance feedback directly in your thread next time. :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 11:59:28 AM by Carabus »
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #512 on: July 08, 2013, 12:31:19 PM »

Oh, if you scroll back to around about page 10-20, you'll find a lot of QQ about Nihil and Neutrino from Lopunny. There is at least one post where Lopunny accuses Zaphide of bad mod management, something like "shouldn't it be your responsibility to make the mods play nice?".

Yeah, the Vatican IV does spawn pretty often even though in the plain Valkyrians mod, it's just a part of a single boss fleet that tries to hunt you down at about lv30 or 40. I say try, because although the message that comes up implies it will pursue you to the ends of the galaxy, it prefers to just run around roflstomping the Valkyrians' enemies until you're in the same general area as it, at which point it actually tries to go after you instead.

I would like to see...
  • The supply fleets of each faction using their freighters, if they have them. IFed using those hypertug barges, Neutrino using the Nausicaa, Hegemony using Tarsuseseseses (I don't know the plural), TriTach using Buffalos, so on, so forth.
  • Fleets having more understandable names instead of things like the Out-System Station baserape fleet.
  • Fleets making sense. I said this a couple posts ago, but I've noticed mid-sized IFed fighting fleets with barges taking up large amounts of their FP, often two or three barges in a fleet. Now the Hypertug by itself is pretty awesome, but the barges that it attaches to, not so much and having multiples of them really gimps the combat abilities of the fleets.
  • Perhaps also "Elite" warfleets comprised of all elite-crewed ships along with "optimal" loadouts for the ships in the fleet. Ships designed to kill and kill efficiently. These warfleets could also contain ships like the Vatican IV or the Neutrino Unsung or the TriTachyon Omega (from the Council Loyalists mod). Perhaps individual modmakers could chip in, creating what they think would be the best loadouts for the flagships of their factions with the weapons they use. Nothing silly like Unsungs with 6 Hadrons, though. That'd be both terrifying and rather lulzy to watch, though. :P These fleets can spawn if a particular station is building up quite the excess of supplies, crew and marines.
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Carabus

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #513 on: July 08, 2013, 01:17:29 PM »

I would like to see...
  • The supply fleets of each faction using their freighters, if they have them. IFed using those hypertug barges, Neutrino using the Nausicaa, Hegemony using Tarsuseseseses (I don't know the plural), TriTach using Buffalos, so on, so forth.

Don't the factions which have custom freighters do exactly this already?
The problem is that apart from IFed and Neutrino most new factions don't have any custom freghters so they have to use vanilla Tarsuses, Buffalos, Valkyrie troop transports and those small tankers whatever the name is.[/list]
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Nanostrike

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #514 on: July 08, 2013, 01:39:29 PM »

I never said to actually do anything about the Council, specifically.  Just that they ARE insanely powerful.  I haven't seen the Neutrino or whatnot in action, but I suspect they're the same.

In and of themselves there's nothing wrong with these factions.

It's just when you put them against the vanilla ones, the Vanilla has no chance.  That's all I was saying.




If you want to talk about Balance...the Vanilla Pirate faction gets decimated currently by all the other Vanilla factions on there right now.  Due to lots of unshielded ships and no capital ship, it's just sorely outclassed.




Also, is there a way you could make some sort of diplomacy menu?  In big, multi-faction wars, I tend to forget who's fighting who.
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Lord_Gantrithor

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #515 on: July 08, 2013, 02:23:36 PM »

Hello all. just want to start by saying thanks for an excellent mod. i have a quick question for you. im playing as shawdowyard and finally captured an atlas class ship. can i use it to capture facilities? i have had no luck with it so far. thanks in advance for the help.
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Cerevox

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #516 on: July 08, 2013, 02:42:32 PM »

My post was very much a "How I see the balance right now", not a request to change anything. Well, I did ask for a few things, but I clearly marked those bits with "I wish...."

I kind of like that some factions are stronger than others. If the Hegemony has to sling two or three onslaughts at every neutrino cruiser just to knock them down, that just makes the game more interesting.

I do wanna clarify a few things I said though.

On the Thule, their frigates and some of their destroyers are top notch and their kinetic guns and SRM missile pods are also great. However they seem lacking in cruisers and cap ships that are actually capable of doing anything. All of my stations fill up with troop transports and hospital ships, which do not make a good armada. They also have that missile cruiser, which would be a beast if only they actually had any large missiles to put on it. I never saw any large missiles other than the meteor show up for sale.

On the neutrino, the shields are not actually the big issue that makes them so strong. The shields are just the obvious one. Neutrino ships also have very high armor and hull amounts and high flux pools for the weapons they mount. Several of their weapons are also either OP or just pure BS. The photon canon revolver thing comes to mind. I am not sure if yall are aware, but those photon shots are infinite range. They also function as missiles so PD fires on them but because of their speed nothing but a solid wall of burst PD can kill them. The AI doesn't really abuse it, but it is entirely possible to kill opposing ships right at the start by spamming it at the other side of the map where you expect the enemy fleet to be. The Neutrino are so OP because of the combination of numerous factors all coming together, and the auto-resolve sees that their stats are just too high in many many places. Personally, I think the auto-resolve is correctly assigning them wins. I think they are slower to repair though because of their lower crew count, which means they get worn down faster than most factions by repeated battles. Just my personal impression, I could be very wrong.

Antediluvians really are not a good balance mark, because it is so easy to specialize ships to kill them. However, the AI doesn't do this, so they can legit win if they are fighting default loadouts. The Antis actually should be winning some of their ai vs ai matchs because they do have some incredible stats.
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Zaphide

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #517 on: July 08, 2013, 03:06:37 PM »

---snip---
I would like to see...
  • The supply fleets of each faction using their freighters, if they have them. IFed using those hypertug barges, Neutrino using the Nausicaa, Hegemony using Tarsuseseseses (I don't know the plural), TriTach using Buffalos, so on, so forth.
  • Fleets having more understandable names instead of things like the Out-System Station baserape fleet.
  • Fleets making sense. I said this a couple posts ago, but I've noticed mid-sized IFed fighting fleets with barges taking up large amounts of their FP, often two or three barges in a fleet. Now the Hypertug by itself is pretty awesome, but the barges that it attaches to, not so much and having multiples of them really gimps the combat abilities of the fleets.
  • Perhaps also "Elite" warfleets comprised of all elite-crewed ships along with "optimal" loadouts for the ships in the fleet. Ships designed to kill and kill efficiently. These warfleets could also contain ships like the Vatican IV or the Neutrino Unsung or the TriTachyon Omega (from the Council Loyalists mod). Perhaps individual modmakers could chip in, creating what they think would be the best loadouts for the flagships of their factions with the weapons they use. Nothing silly like Unsungs with 6 Hadrons, though. That'd be both terrifying and rather lulzy to watch, though. :P These fleets can spawn if a particular station is building up quite the excess of supplies, crew and marines.

Yeah as Carabus says, the first point is done as much as possible. Most modded factions don't have any cargo/fuel/personnel ships.

That name is perfectly understandable :P but fitting? Yeah not so much...

Thanks, will check it out. Freighters and civilian ships should only appear in the supply fleets.

Nice ideas. I'm also thinking that perhaps if a faction is pushed down to it's last station it could make a last stand with said elite-crewed capital ship.

---snip---
Also, is there a way you could make some sort of diplomacy menu?  In big, multi-faction wars, I tend to forget who's fighting who.
Not yet, but StarSector 0.6 will allow custom UI elements. It will be the first thing built :)

Hello all. just want to start by saying thanks for an excellent mod. i have a quick question for you. im playing as shawdowyard and finally captured an atlas class ship. can i use it to capture facilities? i have had no luck with it so far. thanks in advance for the help.

Alas not yet. At the moment you have to wait for the AI controlled fleets to takeover stations. It's something that will get done, but I think such an action would also be better with a UI element or two.
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Carabus

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #518 on: July 09, 2013, 01:58:00 AM »

Thanks, will check it out. Freighters and civilian ships should only appear in the supply fleets.

I thought small freighters are put intentionally in Attack and Defense fleets so they have supplies and fuel reserves for longer missions?
If this is not the case then the code to remove civilian ships from a fleet is already there, I just enabled it only for Patrol fleets which have to be fast to raid other fleets properly.
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Zaphide

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #519 on: July 09, 2013, 04:21:09 AM »

Thanks, will check it out. Freighters and civilian ships should only appear in the supply fleets.

I thought small freighters are put intentionally in Attack and Defense fleets so they have supplies and fuel reserves for longer missions?
If this is not the case then the code to remove civilian ships from a fleet is already there, I just enabled it only for Patrol fleets which have to be fast to raid other fleets properly.

I *think* they should have enough reserves ... I probably just left them there by mistake :)
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MrDavidoff

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Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
« Reply #520 on: July 09, 2013, 04:39:02 AM »

    We just exchanged each others experiences and opinions about factions balance. Noone demanded anything from Zaphide.
    The best place to discuss factions balance in Exelerin is here, not in factions threads, as Exelerin has its own rules for creating fleets and selecting which ships from the certain faction are spawned so the faction may behave quite differently from what the original author created. A good example is the Vatican Mk. IV which spawns far too often in Exelerin, but I already have the code ready for Zaphide which will allow to change spawn chances of certain ships types.

    As for balancing actual stats of certain ships I just wanted to see if others agree with what I observed about Sparrow. If we get a consensus that some ship is seriously OP then the faction creator will welcome some feedback about it. In this case MrDavidoff was then ahead of us and already made some balance changes.

    @MrDavidoff:
    Thank you for your fixes. Also I will post balance feedback directly in your thread next time. :)

    Your right, totally forgot about the different fleet compositions in Exerelin! So yeah, that makes sense to discuss it here, but balance issues of individual ships, yeha that would be ncie to post in the individual mods topic. :)

    P.S. Just to be perfectly clear and I apologize to Zaphide, cause its offtopic - my mod hasnt been updated yet(standalone or in Exerelin), havent finished working on it yet, but I did made changes to the sparrow loong before Exerelin came to be, it will be there once the update is up and when zaphide has time to implement it in his own mod.


    • Perhaps also "Elite" warfleets comprised of all elite-crewed ships along with "optimal" loadouts for the ships in the fleet. Ships designed to kill and kill efficiently. These warfleets could also contain ships like the Vatican IV or the Neutrino Unsung or the TriTachyon Omega (from the Council Loyalists mod). Perhaps individual modmakers could chip in, creating what they think would be the best loadouts for the flagships of their factions with the weapons they use. Nothing silly like Unsungs with 6 Hadrons, though. That'd be both terrifying and rather lulzy to watch, though. :P These fleets can spawn if a particular station is building up quite the excess of supplies, crew and marines.


    Im reworking the sprite, so I wouldnt like to see that old kitbash in game, wouldnt put my name under it. :D But.. even when it looks good enough, i dont think It should be present in the mod, as it is rlly OP, that thing was neevr made for balance, just.. fun endgame for the player. Here, i fear it would mess up things, as noone would have anyhting to counter with.
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    ValkyriaL

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    Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
    « Reply #521 on: July 09, 2013, 08:05:41 AM »

    Aaah you can keep the omega, soon, i'll have a new monster available in my arsenal that can take it on. ::)
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    Silver Silence

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    Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
    « Reply #522 on: July 09, 2013, 08:32:37 AM »

    • Perhaps also "Elite" warfleets comprised of all elite-crewed ships along with "optimal" loadouts for the ships in the fleet. Ships designed to kill and kill efficiently. These warfleets could also contain ships like the Vatican IV or the Neutrino Unsung or the TriTachyon Omega (from the Council Loyalists mod). Perhaps individual modmakers could chip in, creating what they think would be the best loadouts for the flagships of their factions with the weapons they use. Nothing silly like Unsungs with 6 Hadrons, though. That'd be both terrifying and rather lulzy to watch, though. :P These fleets can spawn if a particular station is building up quite the excess of supplies, crew and marines.


    Im reworking the sprite, so I wouldnt like to see that old kitbash in game, wouldnt put my name under it. :D But.. even when it looks good enough, i dont think It should be present in the mod, as it is rlly OP, that thing was neevr made for balance, just.. fun endgame for the player. Here, i fear it would mess up things, as noone would have anyhting to counter with.

    But that'd be the general idea. If a faction is on a roll, or if it's in it's final last stand, then it would roll out it's finest.

    And I'd love to see the new Omega.
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    Nanostrike

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    Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
    « Reply #523 on: July 09, 2013, 08:34:49 AM »

    Any chance of getting the Tore Up Plenty ships put in as options to start with?

    I'd love to use some of those instead of starting with a default Vanilla ship when I use a vanilla faction.
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    ciago92

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    Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
    « Reply #524 on: July 09, 2013, 09:38:33 AM »

    Any chance of getting the Tore Up Plenty ships put in as options to start with?

    I'd love to use some of those instead of starting with a default Vanilla ship when I use a vanilla faction.
    I would second this request, the TUP ships are a lot of fun to mess around with
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