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Author Topic: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 553387 times)

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2013, 12:54:36 PM »

Is it wrong that I looked at the Modding section of the patch notes first? :D

For BoundsAPI, if I'm reading this right the process to add to a bounds is to save the current list of segments, clear it, then rebuild using addSegment() with the new segments included? Or will the game still function correctly if you just add another polygon alongside the existing bounds?

You could add segments to existing bounds, but I'm not sure you'd often want to. Valid bounds need to be a single polygon.

Could you explain SpriteAPI? You mention custom UI panels, does that mean we will be able to create buttons/input boxes alongside these sprites, or is it display-only?

More on that later, but the idea is you'd be able to create customizable dialogs with fully-custom components for certain events. Still working through the details; using the new fleet-to-fleet interaction dialog as a test case for this. If all goes well, it'll actually be moddable.

As far as input - this is what the custom UI panel plugin looks like right now:
Spoiler
/**
    * Called whenever the location or size of this UI panel changes.
    * @param position
    */
   void positionChanged(PositionAPI position);
   
   /**
    * alphaMult is the transparency the panel should be rendered at.
    * @param alphaMult
    */
   void render(float alphaMult);
   
   /**
    * @param amount in seconds.
    */
   void advance(float amount);
   
   /**
    * List of input events that occurred this frame. (Almost) always includes one mouse move event.
    *
    * Events should be consume()d if they are acted on.
    * Mouse-move events should generally not be consumed.
    * The loop processing events should check to see if an event has already been consumed, and if so, skip it.
    * Accessing the data of a consumed event will throw an exception.
    *
    * @param events
    */
   void processInput(List<InputEventAPI> events);
[close]

At the moment, if you wanted buttons etc, you could do that but you'd have to code them up yourself.

Note that you can also make OpenGL calls inside render(). So, you could really code up whatever you wanted in there.


Extra CR cost for suffering a flameout of weapons being disabled by damage
"or" maybe?
Anyway, does this include EMP damage?

Only indirectly, because EMP tends to disable weapons/engines when it hits.

Will low CR improve capture chances (aside from the existing mechanic of undeployable ships being auto-captured/sabataged)? There have been suggestions on making EMP increase capture chance, and with the mechanic above it seems natural to include it. :)

Still thinking about boarding/capture.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #61 on: March 14, 2013, 01:11:00 PM »

Well, the struggle for initial FP dominance - while interesting - also leads to a degenerate battle state where one side (usually the player's) has an overwhelming advantage that renders the rest of the battle moot. So, while I did like the mechanics leading into it, that downside also goes away.

Right, if it leads to a more intense mid-battle phase I'm all for it :)


Another option (that does involve CR mechanics directly) is to switch it around and give missile-using ships some CR back if they *didn't* fire the missiles.

One problem with the cost for missile firing is that the optimal playstile is to not use them. This would emphasize it much more. Isn't it kinda stupid to equip my ship with something that makes me feel bad when using it?

But yeah, there are many ways to fix it if they turn out to weak.


Hmm, that's an interesting consequence to that idea. But - as the missile spec skill demonstrates - adding ammo to missiles is a little awkward due to such a high ammo count variance.

However, you found a solution for that skill. Maybe also start with +1 missile at ~60% and then use a increasing percentage bonus here?

CR50  CR60 CR70  CR80   CR90  Cr100
-        +1     +10% +25% +38% +50%
Atropos
2         3         3         3       3          4
Pillum
30       31       34      39     42         46
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icepick37

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #62 on: March 14, 2013, 01:31:54 PM »

Another option (that does involve CR mechanics directly) is to switch it around and give missile-using ships some CR back if they *didn't* fire the missiles.

One problem with the cost for missile firing is that the optimal playstile is to not use them. This would emphasize it much more. Isn't it kinda stupid to equip my ship with something that makes me feel bad when using it?

Eh, I don't buy that. It's not a hit if you use them, it's a bonus if you don't (though you could probably argue it's the same thing, haha). And they currently already emphasize a wait-and-see play style anyway since their ammo is limited. So it's not that big a jump.

I'm leery of adding ammo to missiles. It seems like a too big a bonus. Maybe it'd play out okay though. No way to know without trying it out, really.
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Jonlissla

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2013, 02:51:25 PM »

The tactical decision now is just how much/what composition you want to deploy. You're basically betting what you think you can handle.

How does the AI handle this? I'm guessing it's just going to deploy everything, but it would be nice if it tried to conserve its own CR in case your fleet is much smaller. You know, for future battles and such.
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Kommodore Krieg

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2013, 05:11:01 PM »

Brilliant.  I love how you've implemented CR.
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Railgun

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2013, 05:23:08 PM »

Can we have a bit of industry/economy thrown in please? Just a bit? Like a bone to a dog? I want a bone!

Or at least a bit of API for those modders to make a more complete campaign mode, maybe with a bit of commerce and outpost construction, etc. I mean, the industry stat' is in there... but it's not being used :(.

I hunger for commerce and industry to give purpose to my foolish vagrancy.
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Blips

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2013, 05:57:58 PM »

Can we have a bit of industry/economy thrown in please? Just a bit? Like a bone to a dog? I want a bone!

Or at least a bit of API for those modders to make a more complete campaign mode, maybe with a bit of commerce and outpost construction, etc. I mean, the industry stat' is in there... but it's not being used :(.

I hunger for commerce and industry to give purpose to my foolish vagrancy.

This. This a thousand times this.
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Cycerin

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #67 on: March 14, 2013, 06:14:35 PM »

I don't give two craps about industry before we get exploration and multiple systems. I still remember the sense of dread from Escape Velocity and Escape Velocity Override when you are getting low on fuel and jumping into uncharted systems... so good.

I also really want more interaction with characters in the game, and I'm curious about Officers. I guess they'll be NPCs with personality traits and skills that can be assigned to captain one of your ships or manage an outpost?
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icepick37

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2013, 07:53:18 PM »

I don't give two craps about industry before we get exploration and multiple systems. I still remember the sense of dread from Escape Velocity and Escape Velocity Override when you are getting low on fuel and jumping into uncharted systems... so good.
You stop that! Now I can't think about anything else, haha.
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Railgun

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2013, 08:19:29 PM »

Well, it's a matter of tastes and opinions after all :).

I'd rather have a bit of industry and commerce because multiple systems wouldn't change much to the current gameplay - you'd find more of what we have already, in different systems. Industry and commerce increase the stakes - they give something to gain, something to lose, and something to fight for.

The combination would be exciting - other systems play the role of markets, territory, and hard-to-reach places, which increase the value of industry, commerce, and politics. But as a stand-alone, I don't think it would add much.
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Trylobot

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2013, 08:32:34 PM »

I see the addition of BoundsAPI; would you mind adding a ShipSpriteAPI as well? :D
"SetShipSprite", provide ID of an already-loaded ship sprite :D

:D

(You know why :D)
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Reshy

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #71 on: March 14, 2013, 09:44:40 PM »

I hope Combat Readiness isn't going to only affect you, because that's lame and waters down the mechanics as you'll never face a weakened enemy fleet.



Furthermore why are frigates being nerfed again?  It's not like they're super powerful, they tend to die enmasse to me.  It also seems like a cop-out to say stress, do cruiser and capital ship crew members somehow not suffer the same kind of stress from being in combat?  I really don't see why frigates need a nerf, frigates tend to have the lower range than larger ships due to smaller slots and less of a bonus from Integrated Targeting Unit.  Furthermore this means that you can't make a frigate that can last long-term in combat which waters down frigate customization.
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Pentakill

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2013, 09:52:11 PM »

@Pentakill: Right; what others have said. I'll just add that I'm very much aware of the dangers of tinkering, and this is most assuredly not that. I appreciate your candor and concern, though.

I appreciate the quick and on-point reply, there's really no substitute for good communication and you, sir, are a master in that respect.

On several other topics:

Missiles: As someone who adores missiles more than most, I find myself on your side of the fence here because when used properly, especially with the right skills, ships, and load-outs, missiles are incredibly effective and devastating. Whether people see this as a small nerf, or perhaps a small buff, i'm not worried missiles will be going anywhere anytime soon.

Frigates: I often start a map with a large fleet of frigates because they are cost efficient, fast, and disposable. Then move into larger ships as the game progresses. As far as this change to frigates it makes them more realistic in my book. As you briefly covered, you can't expect an armada of frigates alone to conquer the universe without large and nearby supply lines.

While these are just the opinions from one of many players, feedback is always helpful and I wanted you to know there is at least one missile lover out there who's okay with the changes.
 
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2013, 10:18:57 PM »

Furthermore why are frigates being nerfed again?  It's not like they're super powerful, they tend to die enmasse to me.  It also seems like a cop-out to say stress, do cruiser and capital ship crew members somehow not suffer the same kind of stress from being in combat?  I really don't see why frigates need a nerf, frigates tend to have the lower range than larger ships due to smaller slots and less of a bonus from Integrated Targeting Unit.  Furthermore this means that you can't make a frigate that can last long-term in combat which waters down frigate customization.

Frigates are also getting an across the board speed buff so that they can be more in their niche. Depending on how large the buff is, I suspect frigates will be significantly more deadly in this patch, not less :P. I guess we'll see.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2013, 10:54:31 PM »

One problem with the cost for missile firing is that the optimal playstile is to not use them. This would emphasize it much more. Isn't it kinda stupid to equip my ship with something that makes me feel bad when using it?

Well, that's not entirely true, is it? Presumably, using the missile successfully has some benefit, too. Getting a faster kill is often more than about just saving time - you're also potentially saving damage taken by your ships.

The tactical decision now is just how much/what composition you want to deploy. You're basically betting what you think you can handle.

How does the AI handle this? I'm guessing it's just going to deploy everything, but it would be nice if it tried to conserve its own CR in case your fleet is much smaller. You know, for future battles and such.

The idea is that the AI will try to avoid over-deploying - i.e. it'll try to top what you have on the field, within reason. If it does end up over-committing, it can always "stand down" after combat to get the CR back, at the cost of letting you get away. Assuming it managed to win, that is.


Can we have a bit of industry/economy thrown in please? Just a bit? Like a bone to a dog? I want a bone!

Or at least a bit of API for those modders to make a more complete campaign mode, maybe with a bit of commerce and outpost construction, etc. I mean, the industry stat' is in there... but it's not being used :(.

I hunger for commerce and industry to give purpose to my foolish vagrancy.

This. This a thousand times this.

I hear you - working towards that. I don't think a half-assed implementation of industry would be helpful here, though, and I don't think creating industry stuff in a relative vacuum and then hoping it can be connected well to combat would work out. CR is the bridge to bigger and better campaign things.

I see the addition of BoundsAPI; would you mind adding a ShipSpriteAPI as well? :D
"SetShipSprite", provide ID of an already-loaded ship sprite :D

:D

(You know why :D)

I do indeed :) Noted down; will take a look.


I hope Combat Readiness isn't going to only affect you, because that's lame and waters down the mechanics as you'll never face a weakened enemy fleet.

It affects everyone.


Missiles: As someone who adores missiles more than most, I find myself on your side of the fence here because when used properly, especially with the right skills, ships, and load-outs, missiles are incredibly effective and devastating. Whether people see this as a small nerf, or perhaps a small buff, i'm not worried missiles will be going anywhere anytime soon.

...

While these are just the opinions from one of many players, feedback is always helpful and I wanted you to know there is at least one missile lover out there who's okay with the changes.
 

Thanks for chiming in with that!


Frigates are also getting an across the board speed buff so that they can be more in their niche. Depending on how large the buff is, I suspect frigates will be significantly more deadly in this patch, not less :P. I guess we'll see.

Oh, I think I forgot to mention one thing about the role of frigates in escape-style battles. The pursuing side can choose to deploy their fighters and frigates from the left or right instead of at the bottom. That potentially brings those ships closer to the flanks of the retreating fleet and also puts them in much better position to control some of the objectives. As you might imagine, control of the Nav Buoy points can make or break an escape. On the flip side, when you're escaping, having fast escort ships to control or at least contest those is what gives larger ships a chance to get away.
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