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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 553303 times)

Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #285 on: June 02, 2013, 12:14:30 PM »

Moving on to Starsector, though: considering an inferior enemy should decide to flee, the only time that'll come into play is either in an escape-style battle or if the enemy fleet overestimates its capabilities *compared to the outcome autoresolve would create*. The latter is more of an AI problem, and is largely resolved in 0.6a.

Or some fast scout group strays into my path by accident and I get to just signal to have it squashed with a languid gesture, which happens more often then you'd think ;D  I suppose I could just let it go, but...such impudence!

Seriously though, if the AI stops overestimating it's combat capabilities most of my concern is gone. If you mentioned that fact before, I missed it.

e/ Oh, wait, they would be fleeing, so if you go through with allowing autoresolve against a fleeing enemy that would be covered, too.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 12:37:32 PM by Gothars »
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Silver Silence

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #286 on: June 02, 2013, 12:56:13 PM »

That's the only time I use autoresolve, too. When a fleet like the one I described earlier decides to toss itself at me. A couple frigates against a leveled up capital ship is a one-sided fight. If there's a hint that autoresolve might not cut it, like taking on the Heg Defense Fleet, I'll fly personally. On paper, the Heg Defense Fleet should roflstomp a lone capital ship. But they've never met me, have they?  :P
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conithwolf

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #287 on: June 02, 2013, 08:39:42 PM »

im stuck where is the download link for the new patches i cant find them and im not getting emails for the updates
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flashydragon

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #288 on: June 02, 2013, 09:50:17 PM »

im stuck where is the download link for the new patches i cant find them and im not getting emails for the updates

Hey conithwolf, have you tried http://fractalsoftworks.com/preorder/ yet? there should be a download link for your operating system at the bottom, for you to get the game. have you tried looking in your Spam inbox for your email yet? if you have, and you really think you should be getting emails, try sending your questions to  [email protected] ! :D
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Silver Silence

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #289 on: June 02, 2013, 10:48:37 PM »

If you mean Starfarer Starsector 0.6, you may have missed the "(In Development)" part of the thread title. It's not out yet, buddy. As for 0.54a, you can grab that by looking through the blog and going back a couple months.
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flashydragon

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #290 on: June 02, 2013, 11:25:42 PM »

If you mean Starfarer Starsector 0.6, you may have missed the "(In Development)" part of the thread title. It's not out yet, buddy. As for 0.54a, you can grab that by looking through the blog and going back a couple months.
Oh!! "NEW" patches...lol. and here i thought i was being helpful, and stuff.  :(

I usually just check the buy page, and see what the save as fucntion spits out at me, if no .6, get that outta here!
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conithwolf

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #291 on: June 03, 2013, 12:26:13 AM »

no i saw all the notes so i thought it was a working patch where they bring it out bit by bit then when it is done compile it like some of the mods for the game i thought the dev's were releasing it like that it my fault for the misunderstanding and tank you for the advice and info
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RawCode

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #292 on: June 03, 2013, 02:49:59 AM »

some currently disabled tabs state that in longrun player will be allowed to have more then one fleet and his own space stations.

autoresolve for player fleet in such case make no sence, if you dont want to waste your time, you merely sent your officer to weak enemy fleet.

also i expect non instant round based m&b style AI battles, that allow to join midcombat, this will provide additional grand strategy layer, when you direct your officers around and join only battles that require skill and luck to win.
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Durandal4532

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #293 on: June 03, 2013, 06:53:19 AM »

What I'd like you to take from that is that maybe keep autoresolve if you want to end combat early

What happens now is you can end it early - with a win - once all the enemy ships are retreating. There's a message to let you know when this is happening.

It's fine if you make autoresolve universally worse than manually fighting if it lets you skip trivial battles (although I'll be annoyed if one of my ships gets heavily damaged or destroyed needlessly like that).

The problem I see there is, again, we're either in 1) autoresolve will handle it poorly because it looks more even on paper than it is or 2) they're trying to get away, so you can skip it already.


You could make it so that you can't autoresolve escape sequences if your primary concern is using autoresolve to catch speedy ships, and lower autoresolve's odds of catching speedy ships when they try to escape.

Hmm. I'm starting to think that "catch a bunch of stuff that's running away" might be the only case left where it's really useful. It's almost a given that you've got vastly superior forces, and it seems more feasible to tune it to be really bad at catching ships - though not utterly terrible - while disallowing a loss.

Though there's still the CR issue there. Yeah, you could have "what the 2nd in command gets to deploy" selection stage... hmm. I'd considered that and thought it a bit of a hassle, but maybe that idea is worth another look. Then you could base the amount of stuff captured on how much stuff you allowed to be deployed.

Yeah, I think that could work. You take out the unpleasant randomness of losing a battle because of it, and have an inefficient shortcut to a potentially bothersome task of chasing down a bunch of stuff. Though those battles actually tend to be a fun change of pace, especially when the enemy has a decent amount of escorts and they use them to delay/escort the fleeing ships.

You'd probably still end up with the occasional "how'd that lone Atlas get away from 3 Tempests", but I suppose that's the breaks when you trust the 2nd in command.

You know, this might be too insane to reliably implement... but it would be kind of neat if autoresolve was, in-game, "telling the second in command to handle it." Such that if it messes up you've got someone to demote, or something.

I don't know if that would add enough to the experience for other players to care, but part of the fun in this sort of game for me is that sort of role-playing. Having actions depend upon or be related to crew members helps that. For instance, FTL wrings a lot of pathos out of having one of your resources be the crew manning each station.

Of course, it's not like the game is going to be designed to have you constantly auto-resolve so it might not make sense to look at it for anything but balance. I just like the idea of chastising someone for my bad luck, like a real boss!
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flashydragon

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #294 on: June 03, 2013, 05:35:13 PM »

What I'd like you to take from that is that maybe keep autoresolve if you want to end combat early

What happens now is you can end it early - with a win - once all the enemy ships are retreating. There's a message to let you know when this is happening.

It's fine if you make autoresolve universally worse than manually fighting if it lets you skip trivial battles (although I'll be annoyed if one of my ships gets heavily damaged or destroyed needlessly like that).

The problem I see there is, again, we're either in 1) autoresolve will handle it poorly because it looks more even on paper than it is or 2) they're trying to get away, so you can skip it already.


You could make it so that you can't autoresolve escape sequences if your primary concern is using autoresolve to catch speedy ships, and lower autoresolve's odds of catching speedy ships when they try to escape.

Hmm. I'm starting to think that "catch a bunch of stuff that's running away" might be the only case left where it's really useful. It's almost a given that you've got vastly superior forces, and it seems more feasible to tune it to be really bad at catching ships - though not utterly terrible - while disallowing a loss.

Though there's still the CR issue there. Yeah, you could have "what the 2nd in command gets to deploy" selection stage... hmm. I'd considered that and thought it a bit of a hassle, but maybe that idea is worth another look. Then you could base the amount of stuff captured on how much stuff you allowed to be deployed.

Yeah, I think that could work. You take out the unpleasant randomness of losing a battle because of it, and have an inefficient shortcut to a potentially bothersome task of chasing down a bunch of stuff. Though those battles actually tend to be a fun change of pace, especially when the enemy has a decent amount of escorts and they use them to delay/escort the fleeing ships.

You'd probably still end up with the occasional "how'd that lone Atlas get away from 3 Tempests", but I suppose that's the breaks when you trust the 2nd in command.

You know, this might be too insane to reliably implement... but it would be kind of neat if autoresolve was, in-game, "telling the second in command to handle it." Such that if it messes up you've got someone to demote, or something.

I don't know if that would add enough to the experience for other players to care, but part of the fun in this sort of game for me is that sort of role-playing. Having actions depend upon or be related to crew members helps that. For instance, FTL wrings a lot of pathos out of having one of your resources be the crew manning each station.

Of course, it's not like the game is going to be designed to have you constantly auto-resolve so it might not make sense to look at it for anything but balance. I just like the idea of chastising someone for my bad luck, like a real boss!

Hahaha! I love it! while i don't Role Play very much myself, I've had great experiences with it in the past, I'd love to see something along those lines with the eventual officers tab! 8)

"yeahhhhhhh...it'd be great if you could drive the fleet to the pirate HQ this Saturday...my stapler" :'(
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ciago92

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #295 on: June 04, 2013, 12:48:58 PM »

*snip*

You know, this might be too insane to reliably implement... but it would be kind of neat if autoresolve was, in-game, "telling the second in command to handle it." Such that if it messes up you've got someone to demote, or something.

I don't know if that would add enough to the experience for other players to care, but part of the fun in this sort of game for me is that sort of role-playing. Having actions depend upon or be related to crew members helps that. For instance, FTL wrings a lot of pathos out of having one of your resources be the crew manning each station.

Of course, it's not like the game is going to be designed to have you constantly auto-resolve so it might not make sense to look at it for anything but balance. I just like the idea of chastising someone for my bad luck, like a real boss!

I like this idea! Maybe once officers come anyways, but I like the idea of having a second in command who is trained by being in command or gets a little experience from watching you. then he's in command of the battle and if his ship goes down he dies or if he screws up enough you can fire him and get a new one. although I can't think of a reason to fire someone experienced so that'd have to be balanced somehow
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Nanostrike

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #296 on: June 04, 2013, 09:54:48 PM »

Just started playing again and I'd like to mention something that Alex probably forgot:

After all the recent changes, a lot of the "Missions" (IE: Standalone battle scenarios) probably need to be re-examined and re-tuned.  With the new ship abilities, improved enemy AI, and balance changes to some weapons, some of the battles that were balanced before are now incredibly lopsided.

'For the Greater Lud' is one that really stands out.  With the default setup, it's gone from a fairly straightforward scenario to a quite frustrating one.  The enemies are always spot-on with the shielding now, and the default setup gives you NO weapons that are any good against shields.  And with the improved ballistic weapons and better accuracy, the enemy fleet will quickly shred all of your bombers and sweep you off the map.

Mind you, I'm not saying it's impossible by any means.  Just VERY difficult.  Meanwhile, refitting a few of your ships with different weaponry makes the entire scenario easily beatable.


Several scenarios have this problem now.  The main issues seem to be:

-The AI in general has gotten far better.  This makes a lot of the scenarios where the player has to save the day due to superior skill much harder.  They don't make many mistakes and leave few openings.  While I'm happy it has good AI, there should probably be some sort of level adjustment for it (Based on crew rank/admiral rank, ect) so that rookie-crewed ships aren't shielding perfectly and landing every shot like Elite crews are.

-The High-Tech ships seem to absolutely dominate almost everything else.  It was rough enough when they just had better shields and more maneuverability.  But now they have things like teleportation, terminator drones, and phase-skipping.  Most missions where you control the high-tech ships are significantly easier, while missions where you are against them can be incredibly frustrating.

-With the addition of the Burn Drive, a lot of scenarios get messy on such small maps.  ESPECIALLY the "Catch the retreating enemy" scenarios like 'The Wolfpack'.  With the Burn Drive and the small map, they can clear the entire screen incredibly fast.  Again, not saying it makes the mission impossible, but it inflates the difficulty a good bit.



TL;DR: The Missions need to be brought back up to speed after all the changes to the game.
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Nanostrike

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #297 on: June 04, 2013, 10:07:56 PM »

Aside from the missions, my first impressions after all these changes are:

-The Hyperion is completely worthy of it's high FP cost.  It's pretty much perfect now.
-Tempests are, IMO, still stupidly overpowered even after the speed nerf.  They're incredibly frustrating to fight now, because the AI tends to just spam the Terminator Drones and endlessly kite you around the map.
-The Omen is no longer useless now that it can rock missiles and fighters with it's EMP.  RIP 'Useless Omen' meme...
-The Brawler, on the other hand, is still pretty bad.  Anything it could overpower can easily outrun it and anything it can catch can usually beat it down in a straight-on fight.  I dunno what it needs, but it needs something.
-Phase Ships are cool and pretty well done.
-Burst weapons are pretty awesome now.
-The Hull Mod system is amazingly flexible.  Love it.
-Atropos Torpedos are still really bad.  You're almost always better off with Reaper Torpedos, which are faster, deal their damage in a faster burst, and are more durable when en-route to a target.  Atropos Torps are really fragile, swatted down by even the most modest PD weaponry, slow enough that all but the largest ships can evade them, and have such poor targeting that they might as well be unguided.  They need some love.



I'll give more feedback after I play more.  Keep up the awesome work on the game.  It's come a long way in just a few months!
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xanderh

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #298 on: June 05, 2013, 03:06:24 AM »

Aside from the missions, my first impressions after all these changes are:

-The Hyperion is completely worthy of it's high FP cost.  It's pretty much perfect now.
-Tempests are, IMO, still stupidly overpowered even after the speed nerf.  They're incredibly frustrating to fight now, because the AI tends to just spam the Terminator Drones and endlessly kite you around the map.
-The Omen is no longer useless now that it can rock missiles and fighters with it's EMP.  RIP 'Useless Omen' meme...
-The Brawler, on the other hand, is still pretty bad.  Anything it could overpower can easily outrun it and anything it can catch can usually beat it down in a straight-on fight.  I dunno what it needs, but it needs something.
-Phase Ships are cool and pretty well done.
-Burst weapons are pretty awesome now.
-The Hull Mod system is amazingly flexible.  Love it.
-Atropos Torpedos are still really bad.  You're almost always better off with Reaper Torpedos, which are faster, deal their damage in a faster burst, and are more durable when en-route to a target.  Atropos Torps are really fragile, swatted down by even the most modest PD weaponry, slow enough that all but the largest ships can evade them, and have such poor targeting that they might as well be unguided.  They need some love.



I'll give more feedback after I play more.  Keep up the awesome work on the game.  It's come a long way in just a few months!


From what you just posted, it sounds like you think it updated. It didn't ;)
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RawCode

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #299 on: June 05, 2013, 07:54:46 AM »

each ship have it's own place.

you just cant compare performance of different class ships.
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