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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 553354 times)

Lily

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #225 on: May 25, 2013, 11:35:21 AM »

why does it have to be hard to capture something?

I guess you want to know why it is hard gameplay-wise: Because otherwise it's a money-printing machine.
Gameplay of a similar game, X2: You sit outside a pirate base and start capturing ships. If you know what you do, you get around 2-3 ships every 10 minutes. So if you capture 4 ships after around 15 minutes, each with 50% hull remaining, you captured enough to buy a new heavy fighter (I'd compare it to a destroyer in Starsector). And that's without your victims' cargo.

If the current idea is implemented, you will only try to capture ships you actually want. For example, it's very hard to get the Astral. So if you want one, you should expect to lose some ships in the process.

Yes, it may potentially be a 'money printing machine' but so are good trade routes.  Both of which require investments into (or should).  Good trade routes require knowledge of the economy, taking tabs, etc.  Capturing ships with ease shouldn't be something you should be doing without capital ships (or at least a handful of cruisers) anyways; so at that point the money you will be making should be around equal to a good trade route.  Don't forget that you've invested a lot of your resources into capturing ships either; that's huge.  And yes, capital ships should be /significantly/ harder than a frigate, per se.

Take a look at it from EVE's standpoint:  You don't really capture disabled ships (to my limited knowledge; I didn't really play all too much) but you can salvage a LOT of things from them that are just as valuable if not 10x more valuable than the ship itself.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 11:38:32 AM by Lily »
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Talkie Toaster

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #226 on: May 25, 2013, 12:45:51 PM »

Now FP are gone, is there another limiting factor on high-tech ships? They generally have lower HP (so lower repair costs) and lower crew counts than the low-tech ones so that'd suggest that they're cheaper to keep and run than the low-tech ones. Is that how it is and the limiting factor for them in the campaign proper is going to be the difficulty acquiring them, or is there a modifier for them that alters supply costs, or do they have base upkeeps separate from crew costs, or are they all subject to CR degradation in-combat like frigates or is it something else entirely?
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phyrex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #227 on: May 25, 2013, 12:55:37 PM »

Now FP are gone, is there another limiting factor on high-tech ships? They generally have lower HP (so lower repair costs) and lower crew counts than the low-tech ones so that'd suggest that they're cheaper to keep and run than the low-tech ones. Is that how it is and the limiting factor for them in the campaign proper is going to be the difficulty acquiring them, or is there a modifier for them that alters supply costs, or do they have base upkeeps separate from crew costs, or are they all subject to CR degradation in-combat like frigates or is it something else entirely?

the fleet point mechanics has been replaced by the deployment points mechanics.
so now instead of being limited on how many ship you can cruise the sector with, you're limited on how many ship you can send into combat instead while being able to have a bigger fleet.
thats kinda so you can have "replacement ships" to send fighting as now repair time and logistical problems become more prominent in the gameplay
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #228 on: May 25, 2013, 01:14:04 PM »

@Lily:
The question here is what role boarding should play in the game. I think you're working with an assumption that it's supposed to be a viable way to acquire wealth in the long-term. That's actually the opposite of what this was designed in mind with.

There's also a question of feel. Should combat against military-grade opponents be a direct, reliable means of growing your fleet?

Now FP are gone, is there another limiting factor on high-tech ships? They generally have lower HP (so lower repair costs) and lower crew counts than the low-tech ones so that'd suggest that they're cheaper to keep and run than the low-tech ones. Is that how it is and the limiting factor for them in the campaign proper is going to be the difficulty acquiring them, or is there a modifier for them that alters supply costs, or do they have base upkeeps separate from crew costs, or are they all subject to CR degradation in-combat like frigates or is it something else entirely?

Ships now have maintenance costs, in supplies per day. Repair costs are also not tied to HP, so high tech ships are actually more expensive on both counts. They also tend to cost considerably more CR per deployment.

so now instead of being limited on how many ship you can cruise the sector with, you're limited on how many ship you can send into combat instead while being able to have a bigger fleet.

Not exactly true, due to aforementioned maintenance costs, though you have other means to work around them and there's more flexibility in going over. More on that in a blog post that I'm currently writing :)
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Talkie Toaster

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #229 on: May 25, 2013, 01:48:16 PM »

Now FP are gone, is there another limiting factor on high-tech ships? They generally have lower HP (so lower repair costs) and lower crew counts than the low-tech ones so that'd suggest that they're cheaper to keep and run than the low-tech ones. Is that how it is and the limiting factor for them in the campaign proper is going to be the difficulty acquiring them, or is there a modifier for them that alters supply costs, or do they have base upkeeps separate from crew costs, or are they all subject to CR degradation in-combat like frigates or is it something else entirely?
Ships now have maintenance costs, in supplies per day. Repair costs are also not tied to HP, so high tech ships are actually more expensive on both counts. They also tend to cost considerably more CR per deployment.

Not exactly true, due to aforementioned maintenance costs, though you have other means to work around them and there's more flexibility in going over. More on that in a blog post that I'm currently writing :)
Ah, thanks. Looking forwards to the blog post!
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #230 on: May 25, 2013, 02:55:56 PM »

(Blog post is up.)
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Jonlissla

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #231 on: May 26, 2013, 03:28:14 AM »

  • Supplies cost increased 20x
  • Increased marine cost 10x

Is the supply consumption as usual or has it been changed?

And marines being that expensive breaks immersion a bit. 7 soldiers cost almost more than 4 fighters that are capable of flying in space, not to mention are armed with heavy weapons. Would be better if you renamed them to Marine Squad or something, otherwise you get the impression they're individual soldiers.

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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #232 on: May 26, 2013, 09:52:30 AM »

Is the supply consumption as usual or has it been changed?

Changed, since there was no ship maintenance before. Repair costs are also different (explicitly set per-ship), though not necessarily higher.

And marines being that expensive breaks immersion a bit. 7 soldiers cost almost more than 4 fighters that are capable of flying in space, not to mention are armed with heavy weapons. Would be better if you renamed them to Marine Squad or something, otherwise you get the impression they're individual soldiers.

I can easily see powered armor being that expensive. It may be smaller than a fighter, but it's not unreasonable that it'd be much more complex/expensive. I also wouldn't put too much stock in the current ship/fighter prices, they're a bit off the wall.
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Sproginator

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #233 on: May 26, 2013, 10:14:09 AM »

All I really want right now is dynamic commodities, please implement this by next version
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flashydragon

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #234 on: May 26, 2013, 10:57:06 AM »

All I really want right now is dynamic commodities, please implement this by next version
That would be cool, but I'd like to see more solar system features, dynamic faction status, and more gameplay features!

I know the goal is to have a galaxy/universe to conquer, but I kind of like the idea of a single system game, a kind of all-your-eggs-in-one-basket style game!

Outposts and officers too!! :)
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Silver Silence

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #235 on: May 26, 2013, 12:52:08 PM »

Is the supply consumption as usual or has it been changed?

Changed, since there was no ship maintenance before. Repair costs are also different (explicitly set per-ship), though not necessarily higher.

And marines being that expensive breaks immersion a bit. 7 soldiers cost almost more than 4 fighters that are capable of flying in space, not to mention are armed with heavy weapons. Would be better if you renamed them to Marine Squad or something, otherwise you get the impression they're individual soldiers.

I can easily see powered armor being that expensive. It may be smaller than a fighter, but it's not unreasonable that it'd be much more complex/expensive. I also wouldn't put too much stock in the current ship/fighter prices, they're a bit off the wall.

Then will ship prices change, too? Or are marines gonna be harder to maintain than space-worthy Talons?
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xanderh

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #236 on: May 27, 2013, 06:20:23 AM »

Take a look at it from EVE's standpoint:  You don't really capture disabled ships (to my limited knowledge; I didn't really play all too much) but you can salvage a LOT of things from them that are just as valuable if not 10x more valuable than the ship itself.

Nope. That's wrong. The salvage will never be worth more than the ship itself, because people would buy the ships just to blow them up and salvage, increasing the price of the ship and decreasing the price of the salvage. In fact, the ratio is closer to the opposite; with the ship being worth about 10x that of the salvage.
And you couldn't capture disabled ships, because they were destroyed. You could, however, force your enemy to eject from their ship and capture it that way.

Anyway, on topic, the changes look interesting. I'll have to take a look at the blog post, but it does look interesting.
It's also nice to get an update on the progress, it's been a while since the last one.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 06:23:06 AM by xanderh »
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heskey30

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #237 on: May 27, 2013, 09:27:49 AM »

I think the progression speed is good right now for the amount of content, but you reduced income (capturing ships isn't a viable income source) and increased expenses (supplies cost more) in this patch - do you have anything to balance the slower progression? It it's in the patch notes, sorry, but I don't remember seeing anything.
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flashydragon

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #238 on: May 27, 2013, 06:46:07 PM »

I think the progression speed is good right now for the amount of content, but you reduced income (capturing ships isn't a viable income source) and increased expenses (supplies cost more) in this patch - do you have anything to balance the slower progression? It it's in the patch notes, sorry, but I don't remember seeing anything.

I was wondering about this as well...if the game no longer has any auto-battle, non-trade ship capturing, and x20 resource costs...

how do we actually get anywhere within the campaign? within 3 hours worth of gaming? mods are the only thing i can think of... ???
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #239 on: May 27, 2013, 08:17:50 PM »

If anything, in the currently-released version 1) the progression is too fast and 2) the early stages of it are more fun. Something where you're just barely getting by and advancing is more difficult wouldn't be a bad thing.

In any event, I'm not too concerned about the speed of the progression at this point. Any real effort put into that now is mostly wasted, though I'll certainly take a good look at it before making the release.
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