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Author Topic: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 563534 times)

Cosmitz

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #990 on: September 17, 2013, 02:55:04 AM »

Quick question, why has "A" for quick-repair gone away?
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Gotcha!

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #991 on: September 17, 2013, 06:54:10 AM »

I see neutral traders in my sector. Does the AI find modded systems itself? Will pirates enter modded systems?
That's awesome, Alex! I was afraid this had to be scripted per every mod.
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Gabriel_Braun

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #992 on: September 17, 2013, 07:47:22 AM »

I'm still seeing the AI able to deploy no assets after an engagement and instantly be defeated.  There's some issue with the AI code allowing 0 deployment as it only costs them CR when I harry, hence a mechanics issue...

Yes, I'm using RC4 (or rc4(3) actually) lol

Oh Alex it's so close to working, why don't the enemy use the burn rate equation properly?  What have I done?  lol

-Edit:

If the enemy fleet is defeated (makes a die roll) then shouldn't they flee and accept the losses BUT AT THE SAME TIME fire all usable weapons/deploy shields in retreating their slowest burn ships in one engagement before their faster ones after that an so on, thus making it CR demanding to chase little buggers to oblivion than them (or me) sacrificing a juicy capital or freighter in order to escape?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 07:50:56 AM by Gabriel_Braun »
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Gabriel_Braun

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #993 on: September 17, 2013, 07:55:03 AM »

It's too intuitive that this should be the case that what we are experiencing here is a bug...   The enemy decision to join instead of escape is IMHO at the cause of this decision tree failure, not your sustained engagement mechanic
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Trylobot

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #994 on: September 17, 2013, 09:42:20 AM »

It's too intuitive that this should be the case that what we are experiencing here is a bug...   The enemy decision to join instead of escape is IMHO at the cause of this decision tree failure, not your sustained engagement mechanic

Already reported on RC4: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6705.0
Alex has stated it was not intended behavior and will be fixed.
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Trylobot

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #995 on: September 17, 2013, 09:51:00 AM »

* Wasps cost too much - 9 compared other fighters' 2 or 3.
* Frigate swarms are still viable and may be even more effective than before...

This is particularly true in the case of the Wasp vs. the Hound. One formation of Wasps uses 9.0 supplies/day, and 9 crew. You can field almost the same number of Hounds for that kind of logistics. One Hound is 1.0 supplies/day, but requires 10 crew. I haven't actually tested this but I would surmise that you could have 6 or 7 hounds + 60 to 70 crew for the same logistical impact as the one wasp squad. That feels pretty ridiculous. Wasps should impact logicistics less. So should the Talon interceptors. They're so pathetically weak, yet cost 4.0 supplies. I feel they should impact logistics like 0.5 or 1.0 given how weak they are. I don't mind the supply cost, it's the logistical impact. It should be analogous to the deployment points or something. I dunno.

Thoughts, Alex?
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Montavious

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #996 on: September 17, 2013, 09:55:16 AM »

Loving the update. especially the sounds now. But this CR thing has to be fixed. Player controlled ships sputter out way too fast. Extend it or just get rid of it. Making it less fun IMO.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #997 on: September 17, 2013, 10:19:16 AM »

* Wasps cost too much - 9 compared other fighters' 2 or 3.
* Frigate swarms are still viable and may be even more effective than before...

This is particularly true in the case of the Wasp vs. the Hound. One formation of Wasps uses 9.0 supplies/day, and 9 crew. You can field almost the same number of Hounds for that kind of logistics. One Hound is 1.0 supplies/day, but requires 10 crew. I haven't actually tested this but I would surmise that you could have 6 or 7 hounds + 60 to 70 crew for the same logistical impact as the one wasp squad. That feels pretty ridiculous. Wasps should impact logicistics less. So should the Talon interceptors. They're so pathetically weak, yet cost 4.0 supplies. I feel they should impact logistics like 0.5 or 1.0 given how weak they are. I don't mind the supply cost, it's the logistical impact. It should be analogous to the deployment points or something. I dunno.

Thoughts, Alex?

Yeah, it's out of whack. My intent was to make fighters a more expensive proposition to counter the fact that you basically can't lose them - and also to account for the fact that CR recovery for fighters *also* includes repairs, which fighters don't need.

So fighters aren't as supply-intensive as the daily cost indicates - but, I think, the bigger issue is that they take a huge chunk of the logistics rating. I can see at some point adding a character skill for fighters that reduces their impact on logistics without altering the supply consumption.

As is, though, I'll adjust the values for 0.6.1a. Probably not to the level of frigates - since fighters do have some advantages - but a good bit less than they are now. Wasps in particular, ah. I'm not sure what I was thinking, probably just failed at multiplying by 6 :)

Quick question, why has "A" for quick-repair gone away?

More or less an oversight when redoing that dialog to use the new framework. Added it back in.

I see neutral traders in my sector. Does the AI find modded systems itself? Will pirates enter modded systems?
That's awesome, Alex! I was afraid this had to be scripted per every mod.

It might have to be, actually - not sure what's going on there. They'll pursue stuff through jump points; that's probably it. I wouldn't expect pirate fleets to specifically go raiding in a modded system without being given that "assignment" when spawned, though.

Loving the update. especially the sounds now. But this CR thing has to be fixed. Player controlled ships sputter out way too fast. Extend it or just get rid of it. Making it less fun IMO.

Thanks! (As far as CR, there are lots of aspects to it, so I can't really respond without more detail. All I can say is that it'll definitely see some tweaks, and it'll also definitely stay in the game.)
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Trylobot

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #998 on: September 17, 2013, 11:10:42 AM »

After playing with the new CR mechanic for a couple days, I can definitely see the thought that has gone into it. I'm sure with a round or two of tweaking you will find that sweet spot you are looking for regarding game balance. It has had the intended effect on my play style, for sure.

For example, I keep as many ships in reserve as I can in any given engagement, instead of what I used to do which was steamroll everything with my entire fleet at every opportunity. The multi-round battles are also a very logical change, and I find I am thinking ahead further in my strategies. All good stuff to be doing, and I feel more like a proper admiral than before :)
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #999 on: September 17, 2013, 12:07:49 PM »

Cool! Yeah, I think it's going to take more mechanics being in place to find a sweet spot for the costs.
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Montavious

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1000 on: September 17, 2013, 01:18:40 PM »

After playing with the new CR mechanic for a couple days, I can definitely see the thought that has gone into it. I'm sure with a round or two of tweaking you will find that sweet spot you are looking for regarding game balance. It has had the intended effect on my play style, for sure.

For example, I keep as many ships in reserve as I can in any given engagement, instead of what I used to do which was steamroll everything with my entire fleet at every opportunity. The multi-round battles are also a very logical change, and I find I am thinking ahead further in my strategies. All good stuff to be doing, and I feel more like a proper admiral than before :)

Ya, with a little tweeking it will be great. I had 4 frigs against a pirate fleet with some carriers and destroyers. Like 3 minutes into the fight (which i was winning), it said my CR was dropping. My ships engines started going offline, weapons froze. From that point on they were shooting fish in a barrel, i didnt stand a chance. Especially when your engine malfunctions. Other than that Im really enjoying the game.
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Silver Silence

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1001 on: September 17, 2013, 01:36:07 PM »

Yeah, you need to be keeping battles short and sweet with frigates. If frigates are in good CR condition, they can work for about a minute longer after informing you that they're tiring. So your battles should last about 4minutes at the most, otherwise you probably want to have a destroyer in there at least for some extra staying power.
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tinsoldier

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1002 on: September 17, 2013, 02:11:13 PM »

But then we can just splash a talon at them and turn tail with the rest of our fleet, right?

2400 for a retreat can be quite cheap depending on the situation

You'd still get harried, and that'd likely cost you considerably more than 2.4k. Really, "deploy one ship and retreat it right away w/o fighting" is what's bad. If you deploy one Talon wing and actually have it fight, to me that's an acceptable rear-guard action.


If the point of the rear-guard is to buy time, then why not model that into the scenario?  Maybe you have to hold a command point for two minutes or the ship is lost for it to be effective.  If you can hold it with a hound *and* escape then more power to you.  That hound just saved the fleet.
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ciago92

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1003 on: September 17, 2013, 03:04:39 PM »

If the point of the rear-guard is to buy time, then why not model that into the scenario?  Maybe you have to hold a command point for two minutes or the ship is lost for it to be effective.  If you can hold it with a hound *and* escape then more power to you.  That hound just saved the fleet.

I really like that idea. Hold this objective for x seconds for the rest of the fleet to escape unharmed
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1004 on: September 17, 2013, 03:06:11 PM »

Well, that's pretty much how it works in the escape scenario. If you can manage to hold one of the rear Nav Buoys, for example - both giving your fleet more time and a speed boost - that'll go a long way to letting it get away.
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