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Yes, please up the OP

85 (75.2%)

No, leave it as it is now

23 (20.4%)

No, other...

5 (4.4%)

Total Members Voted: 113

[Erick Doe]

How bout a better buffalo. MkIII or soemthing that has a damn shield. Or good pd. No one ever uses the buffalo, give it some love 

I hear you! I was planning a mark 3.

[zeno0010]

 

[mostmodest]

How bout a better buffalo. MkIII or soemthing that has a damn shield. Or good pd. No one ever uses the buffalo, give it some love 

Why not give it a shield?

[CopperCoyote]

Glad you like the suggestions. I'm well aware that some of my suggestions turn out to be stinkers so salt as needed.

I like spinally mounted guns, and i like integrated weapons. What if the buffalo 2(3?) had a spinal integrated weapon? That might be amazing.

(prepost edit: yay mark 3)

Off topic story time!

Spoiler

I like the buffalo2. Its not a good ship, but once you have 3 ranks in the +%flux capacity skill you can slap on a shield. So right out of the gate if you choose something else both times. The buffalo2 is decent if you've invested in the missile skill. Its never what i use if i want to beat tough enemies, but its cheap and prolific so i don't feel bad about losing one(just be sure to use sealed doors to reduce crew loss). Its also got an ok base speed so i can avoid the tougher fights.

Sometimes for funsies i use whole fleets of buffalo2s to kill things. The most impressive one to date was the pirate carrier fleet with the venture in it. I suffered heavy loses, but those 2 levels were sure nice.

[close]

The mule is on the cusp of being a decent combat ship. With its medium omni and maneuvering jets it is good at staying at max weapons range. If it had another turret for pd up front and some flux and op upgrades i think it'd be on par with more combat focused ships.

The 12 FP (falcon?) cruiser is a little lacking in offensive power. I think giving it the tore up plenty treatment would remedy that.

[zeno0010]

How bout a better buffalo. MkIII or soemthing that has a damn shield. Or good pd. No one ever uses the buffalo, give it some love 

Why not give it a shield?

Well, i feel like not having a shield is part of its *charm*. problem its not like the hound where it can dodge things  which is why alot of people dun use it XD. i feel like if it had like manuvering jets and and a better armor belt its charm would still be intact. The weapon loead out is ok for its purpose, but their all in weird places XD

[CopperCoyote]

How long are these tore up plenty ships supposed to be used?

Long narrative on my thoughts:

Spoiler

I gave the Talus a go on mostly vanilla (i have omnifactory installed). I'm bad at this game given the amount i've played it, it seems. Even lowly buffalo2s would give me a run for my money. I had to drastically alter the loadout to stand to win most of the time. Lots of MGs a swarmer and an annihilator in the turret. I dropped it pretty much immediately for a thrasher. The talus is a decent carrier though. 9 hangar space is usually plenty unless you want to use a fighter fleet.

I started a new save with the Sentinel, and enjoyed it more. I think the difficulty isn't much higher than the Talus. I immediately refitted it with 4 MGs and the annihilator though. I also lucked out early on and caught 2 buffalo2s that were under crewed nearly back to back. So i was able to quickly afford an enforcer.
I thought i'd try and capitalize on the 16 potential OP worth of missiles and go tech/combat. While it is rather impressive the frigate AI is too aggressive still and gets spattered often.

I haven't tried the rest yet. Based on what i've seen with these three ships i think i can make a good analogy about what using them feels like:
Imagine you are running a race. You know you're faster than the other guy so give him a head start (so its a sporting challenge). If you give him too much head start no matter how much faster you accelerate or how much higher your top speed he'll win still.

As it stands now it feels like the vanilla ships have too much head start. In this case the acceleration is the same because of the flat costs associated with adding weapons or vents/caps or mods. The other problem is the higher top speed is hard to achieve because even after i've gotten the +% vent and flux skills maxed it sill didn't really feel like it offset the lack of vents/caps.

Another aspect of the low flux ability is the fact that these ships have small shields (and Timberwolf's is fixed too). This means that these ships are running dashes instead of marathons. The other armor heavy ships have incredible amounts of armor(dominator venture) or dodge really good (hound shade afflictor). Or both (doom). The phase ships are a special kind of dodge, and require special fleets though.

The point is with lots of hardpoints and very little shield these ships are like strike craft, but lack the flux to really put the hurt on.

Alternatively when i under gunned or even left some slots empty i still had trouble doing enough damage to down things in a reasonable amount of time. Worse still i couldn't kite as well as with a hound so i'd frequently take heavy damage.

[close]

The TL;DR is i drop the starter ships very early on for vanilla ships. The talus was at level 8. While fun, using these ships is fun like using buffalo2s or shuttles; for the laughs or the challenge.

[Erick Doe]

Brilliant analogy! Solid feedback.

I'm going to up the OP some more, as well as the ship's innate flux efficiency. The vanilla ships have too great a head start. I'll try and close the distance. 


Side note:
The variants that come with Tore Up Plenty are far from optimised and should encourage the player to figure out what works best.

[Undefined]

I'm a bit in love with the wrestler. I actually prefer piloting it over most destroyers, it has some serious staying power with a few upgrades to flux and careful flux management,once you've got an opening it can tear much larger ships apart, the only real negative is that ammo can run out quick if you rely on the chainguns to build up hard flux to create that opening.

[SainnQ]

I'm a bit in love with the wrestler. I actually prefer piloting it over most destroyers, it has some serious staying power with a few upgrades to flux and careful flux management,once you've got an opening it can tear much larger ships apart, the only real negative is that ammo can run out quick if you rely on the chainguns to build up hard flux to create that opening.

Needlers?

[ciago92]

I love this mod :-) upgrading ships and playing with loadouts are always awesome! I know it would take forever, and I can't contribute cuz I have no skillz :-( but I would love to see this reach a point where there are upgrades for almost every ship, or multiple upgrades for the starter ships to keep them relevant kind of thing. Maybe different paths based on bigger weapons/more weapons/supporting the fleet or something?

[Teh_Wolf]

That WAR multi-onslaught class DEATH-ship thing needs to be in this mod.

[Sproginator]

Ahaa, My death machine?

[Teh_Wolf]

Yes, that's what I mean.

[Erick Doe]

Updated ALL ships. Raised their Ordnance Points. Added the:

Mace Relative starting difficulty: Extremely Easy


This civilian light cruiser is a great starting ship to anyone who is new to Starsector, and finds the early game too challenging.

[Teh_Wolf]

I've just started with the mace, and it only has 20 crew, when it needs 75 crew!