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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Combat Readiness  (Read 108322 times)

Brainbread

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2013, 03:37:16 PM »

You could always make retreating Frigates free?
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BillyRueben

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2013, 03:50:54 PM »

possible across-the-board speed buff

Oh please let it happen.
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Alex

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2013, 04:03:16 PM »

possible across-the-board speed buff

Oh please let it happen.

Just to clarify, that's being considered for frigates only. Not sure if that came across in the last post.

You could always make retreating Frigates free?

Yeah, that's definitely a possibility if it becomes an issue. Would just rather avoid extra rules as much as possible, you know? If there's a workable solution within the existing ruleset, the bar for anything outside of that goes way up...
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Gothars

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2013, 04:40:47 PM »



So, the problem with them is that they are too fast, their speed allows them to kite indefinitely. True, that's problematic. The planned solution is to degrade their overall performance to the point where they should be retreated.

So I have to ask, why not specifically degrade the one stat that is the problem, IE degrade speed? That way the would loose the ability to kite, but stay useful in other roles such as escort or Objective protection.

The main reason to do so is to take advantage of an already-existing mechanic, rather than slapping on a brand-new one just for this purpose. I'd actually considered doing this a few releases ago, but decided against it just because it'd be too... random? Arbitrary? Ham-fisted? Using existing CR effects ties it in nicely with the rest of the game, the lore, etc. Now, tying a different set of CR effects specifically for frigates is different, since that's not so disconnected from the rest of the game anymore, but I have to ask: why? Existing CR effects do the job just fine without complicating things by having even more rules.

Right, keeping it simple. Hope it works out. Did you try kiting in a 0% CR frigate already, is it (more or less) impossible? I could imagine that a frigate with 15% worse stats and occasional engine problems is still capable of kiting with the right tactic (gliding a lot), especially if the fastest enemies and missiles have been taken care of at the beginning. And, you know, the last thing we'd want is to have kiting as a still effective, but now even more tedious tactic.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 12:10:43 PM by Gothars »
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2013, 05:44:58 PM »

You could always make retreating Frigates free?

Yeah, that's definitely a possibility if it becomes an issue. Would just rather avoid extra rules as much as possible, you know? If there's a workable solution within the existing ruleset, the bar for anything outside of that goes way up...

What about free retreat for any ship under certain CR?  That wouldn't stick out as an extra rule as much as just free retreat for frigates, although clearly it would benefit the frigates the most.
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sdmike1

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2013, 06:15:39 PM »

Or retreating costs CR and if you are at 0 CR then you can still retreat

DelicateTask

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2013, 06:22:10 PM »

Or retreating costs CR and if you are at 0 CR then you can still retreat
I like that. It sounds elegant. I've always been unhappy with retreat orders costing CPs.
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Histidine

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2013, 08:53:35 PM »

Add me to the "ooh shiny" crowd  ;D

Various disjointed thoughts
Some ideas involving freighters/tankers have already been bounced around. Mine: how about "tender" functionality for these ships (perhaps with hullmods)? Such ships would keep the CR level of a fleet up, by (for instance) reducing CR losses during long voyages, and speeding up its recovery following combat.

On frigates: These fellas are already at the bottom of the firepower/FP curve (c.f. the capital ship discussions); their role in battles is largely limited to point capping, harassment and running down retreating ships. If we're going to nerf their endurance on top of that, could we have an increase to their combat capabilities as well?

I'd propose a leadership skill involving CR, but I suspect that one's so obvious you already thought of it long ago :P

« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 08:55:44 PM by Histidine »
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #98 on: February 21, 2013, 12:03:11 AM »

Or retreating costs CR and if you are at 0 CR then you can still retreat

Yes, that looks more elegant/refined.
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miro

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2013, 01:42:10 AM »

I am extremely excited for this.

I was a "Kiter" and I have always found it weird that you don't really need to progress beyond a Hyperion or Tempest. I like the idea of them becoming a sort of hit and run craft, because while you would no longer be able to dismiss all battles as risk free, the ships would still remain an effective "hunter killer."

Also, I love the idea of there being a risk to staying in combat too long, rather than a predictable debuff. I look forward to the moment when I begin to speed through the middle of a fleet, only to have my engines blow out, smashing me into the shields of the Onslaught I was trying to avoid.

The concept of Combat Readiness is in my opinion a good one too. I feel it is an elegant solution to the problem of a ship being able to effectively fight indefinitely.

I also look forward to managing my ships in a way that maximizes their combat effectiveness, while increasing the role non combat ships play in the game. (Troop transports, or Freighters)

I love randomness to an extent, and as far as I can tell, this is the perfect amount. Obviously the day after the patch, I'll be right back here, complaining my a** off about how unfair the changes were, and how I didn't see them coming.  :P  But until then, keep up the good work! :D

This concept was so awesome it made me de-lurk, and go through the account process. I'm a bit worried I got the "average number of ears" question wrong though.
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Aratoop

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2013, 04:36:45 AM »

At 0% CR, will auto-firing guns still fire as much? Or will there be a reduction in the amount. Right now, plasma cannons like to aim at fighters from time to time, even when there's enough pd to kill 'em.
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Cycerin

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #101 on: February 21, 2013, 07:37:41 AM »

I just had a hilarious image of a Hyperion smugly blinking away to vent flux, only for the flux vents to jam and have the ship inflate like a balloon until it explodes.

Speaking of which, when do we get our psuedoscience flux fluff blogpost?
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sdmike1

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #102 on: February 21, 2013, 07:41:17 AM »

Vent jamming would be a very bad thing indeed in addition to being rather annoying :P  my guess is that it won't be implemented like that...  :)

The conclave of top-level flux theorists is still debating the finer points of the physics involved. As such, we're not prepared to issue an official statement at this time. Rest assured, citizen - the Hegemony Administratum will issue a Sector-wide priority bulletin if the situation changes.

 ;)

Luftwaffle

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #103 on: February 21, 2013, 02:29:04 PM »

With this blog post goes my occasional lurking on the comments sections ( goodbye blog comments and hello forums! )

But anyways, will CR regeneration be affected by overall crew level or by the amount of crew (with the higher crew levels being more effective at maintaining the ship )? And will crew from other ships be able to help out?

If crew from other ships could help out with CR, it might give potential use to ships like the Valkyrie which I might've not used otherwise (except for as a giant marine transport for boarding).
Maintenance ships could also be great, increasing the rate at which CR comes back.
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Dimuyen

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Re: Combat Readiness
« Reply #104 on: February 21, 2013, 02:34:45 PM »

Just caught up reading the 7 pages. Interesting stuff this CR, and it brought up several thoughts, some of which have already been stated so I'll just skip those ;).

As I think Alex already alluded to, if you're going to make this into something important during combat the player will definitely need to know about it, particularly if your flagship is not a frigate. Maybe an audio queue would be good and wouldn't clutter up the UI. "Commander, some frigates are having critical malfunctions!" or something.

My guess is someone has mentioned this at some point and so there's probably been a discussion about it, but what about allowing non-combat ships onto your fleet that do not count against your fleet limit. That would let players add tankers or maybe repair ships or other non-combat ships to a fleet that would never be put into combat (no weapons). If this was possible it makes sense to me that ships that are in a low CR state would actually become non-combat ships until such a time as their CR increases enough to allow them to be deployed. Non-combat ships in a losing fleet are either boarded or scuttled at the end of combat.

Lastly, I have to agree with many of the other guys that have been posting about frigate usefulness once you have amassed enough for a cruiser and a cap ship. I do like having 2 frigates around for capturing nodes early in combat so I can field more ships, but beyond that I mostly use them to kill fighters. If on top of that their CR degrades to the point where they can't be fielded...I dunno that I'd bother fielding any and instead go with a fast destroyer.

Edit: Oh and one other point. Crew level affects CR loss/recovery rate right? faster/slower for green crew, and slower/faster for elites?
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