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Author Topic: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.  (Read 19485 times)

Dri

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Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« on: January 13, 2013, 12:46:16 PM »

You know a little game called Space Pirates and Zombies? Yeah, that game was total indie and yet got onto Steam w/o Greenlight! Starsector is basically a much deeper, tactical version of SPAZ so if Alex composes his pitch right to Steam they may let Starsector in w/o the need for all the Greenlight mumbo jumbo.

Would be nice... save Alex $100 and a lot of stress and work trying to get all them votes.
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Pendragon

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 05:21:56 PM »

A lot of games manage to make the cut without using Greenlight though unless something's changed Alex wants to keep Starsector off Steam for the foreseeable future. Being on something like Steam puts a great deal of pressure on a developer to deliver exactly what is promised exactly when it is promised and right now, with Starsector so early in development and so many major creative decisions still to be made I can get behind wanting to keep it in his own hands. Still, when the time comes it would be wonderful to see Starsector get the exposure that Steam can give to a game. It certainly deserves it.

Sordid

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 05:26:23 PM »

Well yeah, you generally don't put an unfinished game on Steam. Once it's done, though, there's no reason not to put it on Steam.
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Verrius

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2013, 07:51:04 PM »

SPAZ had to fight tooth and nail to get onto Steam without Greenlight.

But eh, who really cares. $100 is nothing to even a small company anyway, it's something that'll seem like nothing when the game is finished.

God forbid it's released on steam in it's current state :p

sdmike1

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2013, 08:30:37 PM »

At least alex would be upfront about it unlike the the boreZ ::)

BillyRueben

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 09:36:01 PM »

Don't approach Steam until you are at version 1.0 (or at least have a firm release date).
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sdmike1

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 09:36:29 PM »

/\ this

Sproginator

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2013, 03:05:53 AM »

To be completely honest. I'd like to have a balanced viewpoint on the positive and negative effects of going to Steam.

Positive:

Steam workshop would allow for a much easier installation and management of mods
Gains a large amount of publicity
Large financial benefit(perhaps?)
Easier update system

Negative:

Large amount of new players also brings large amount of undesirables
A lack of detail and polish in any area of the game has a large impact on the purchases
(unsure on this one) May be forced to participate in sale events which could cause a loss of profits
If steam undergoes maintenance then the game is unable to be played(possibly, There are offline issues)
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sdmike1

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 07:27:27 AM »

Most people make money from the steam sales because it costs almost noting to send the files to someones computer

David

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 10:11:40 AM »

Jumping in with my experience working w/ Valve re. release of Dredmor and expansions via Steam. Note: This is largely speculation based on my experience and some flimsy circumstantial evidence, not actual inside knowledge, and not the opinion of Alex, Fractal Softworks, or Gaslamp Games, etc.

A word on Steam:
It is perhaps the only way to meaningfully distribute a game for the PC. It blows every other distribution platform (Desura, Gamefly, etc) out of the water in terms of sales volume. By a large margin. No, really - it's dramatic how much of the market is concentrated on Steam. Considering how well Alex has done selling Starsector completely independently, he's going to do *very well* selling it through Steam.
(Actually, the Apple store might have decent volume, but it's kind of a different market and I don't actually have experience with them.)

Getting on Steam & thoughts on Greenlight:
Gaslamp Games was lucky to get in before the Greenlight mess. It would *suck* to have to play that somewhat broken and chaotic popularity contest especially as completely out-of-money indie devs (which Gaslamp was when we finished Dredmor). Happily Alex has income from Starsector already, so he wouldn't be screwed by that.

As for Greenlight, it's really strange and I'm glad we didn't have to put up with it -- Valve has a unique approach to running a business (check out their employee handbook if you haven't read it already) and it shows in their practice. They are essentially business via science, by running experiments, adjusting based on results, then going with what works. This means their behaviour can look erratic from the outside, but there really is a rationale to everything they do. The other side of things is that, as you can see via the employee handbook, any initiative or project needs an employee to advocate for it by choosing to work on it. A lot of the un-cool stuff can get sidelined -- a good deal of quality control of distributed games (see: The War Z or whatever it's called, and all the crap that was on Greenlight before they had any filtering at all) is not done until there is a backlash that requires a response.

Pre-Greenlight, you had to get the attention of someone in Valve to get on Steam -- get an advocate, ya'know. They had *one* contact for new product inquiries who I'm sure got bombarded like crazy by indie games - and tons of crap shovelware too. There was a lot of outcry over why this or that game didn't get onto Steam, but seriously one person could not be expected to go through all of the applicants and judge whether they were any good (hence Greenlight as an effort to externalize this work onto the public). Gaslamp was lucky because we hired on a Serious Business Guy via a family connection who worked in the games field who knew how to properly approach Valve so we hired him on contract and it seems that they wanted what we were making.

Back to Starsector:
Alex might be able to pull through on Greenlight because he has some good PR via TotalBiscuit, a number of game blogs, & others. Heck, I know PC Gamer would like to cover Starsector once it's in a more complete state, and Rockpapershotgun has featured him before and surely will again. Although Alex doesn't play the hype, preview, and publicity game at all (much to some people's annoyance, I know), he simply makes a damn good product and that quality speaks for itself. Valve people follow all of these sources and if he gets the praise the quality of Starsector will surely get, he'll be good to go.

(Plus, he's got me & Gaslamp behind him if he needs to use our connections.)

In short, he'll be fine.
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Dri

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2013, 10:29:04 AM »

Wowza, thanks for the post, David. Really sheds some light on Steam and the huge impact it can have on indie devs.

Lets hope Steam recognizes Starsector for the gem it really is.
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firstattak1

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2013, 11:43:07 AM »

I personally think that this game doesn't need green light. Would it be great if it was up there. YES! But we really don't need better/more mods or more people to play with us, this comunity is great as is, and we deffinently don't need big time youtubers doing lets play. Untill this game becomes a huge finished game with industry and all the features that Alex will bring, this game is perfect as is.(popularity wise)
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Pendragon

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2013, 11:44:54 AM »

Okay everyone, nothing more to see here, we can close the thread. David's covered everything I think. ;D

sdmike1

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2013, 07:37:49 AM »

Okay everyone, nothing more to see here, we can close the thread. David's covered everything I think. ;D
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Harabeck

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Re: Starsector may not even need to use Steam Greenlight.
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2013, 02:00:57 PM »

Don't approach Steam until you are at version 1.0 (or at least have a firm release date).

The game I'm working on, Kinetic Void, got Greenlit in the third wave. They're actually pretty cool about that stuff once you're "lit". Our release is nebulously set as Q1/2. The Steam reps don't seem to care.

It's also not clear that they're accepting indies through anything but Greenlight if you read their FAQ on game submission: http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php

Quote
At the moment Steam is currently not accepting new game submissions as we transition to our new Steam Greenlight process.
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