Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7

Author Topic: AI slips/player tricks report thread  (Read 41720 times)

ianianian

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2013, 08:21:28 PM »

I just thought it weird since things like burn drive don't do the same thing.

I thought about the friction thing as well, but figured that didn't make sense since turning your engines on to boost you forward slows you down as well
Logged

mostmodest

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2013, 11:49:42 PM »

One trick that I discovered (as a wolf/medusa/phase skimming ship)is that you can phase skim into a ship. This removes the armor from that spot of the enemy ship and yours. It does have the penalty of removing your armor and most of your help. I have exploited this tactic to remove armor from a capital for an easy kill.
Should there be some sort of failsafe collision protection thingy to stop that from happening?
Logged
Yes, you are reading to far into this.

ianianian

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2013, 05:43:06 AM »

I just thought it weird since things like burn drive don't do the same thing.

I thought about the friction thing as well, but figured that didn't make sense since turning your engines on to boost you forward slows you down as well

And I checked last night, the AI doesnt use this bug
Logged

Gothars

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4343
  • Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity.
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2013, 08:30:46 AM »

I want to remind everybody that this threat is about exploitable AI behavior, not about some skills or tricks the AI doesn't have but the player can use. Those are to be expected in every game.


@ ianianian: That is a well known trick, it is in the game "for now" because it's fun and doesn't do much harm. It might be removed or changed eventually.
Logged
The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 20988
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2013, 08:48:16 AM »

Actually, it's not a bug. That's just how things work.

Burn Drive follows the same rules. It's just that as part of its sequence, it'll keep the engines active as the maximum speed goes down, thus bringing the actual speed down as well. Which is also intentional, because an Onslaught cruising along at 200+ speed would be silly.

Anyway, yeah. Let's keep this on topic!
Logged

Gothars

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4343
  • Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity.
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2013, 02:49:04 AM »

A word on the burn drive: Is it supposed to be interruptable or not? 'Cause you can easily interrupt it by venting, or if you have 0 flux, by squeezing off a few shots and venting. That's a very useful technique that makes the burn drive much more flexible, but the AI doesn't seem to know about it.
There are multiple ways to use the interrupted burn drive to get into the back of ships or to better tactical positions, so it's a bit unfair.

I'd suggest to either make interruption impossible (disable venting or keep burn drive online while venting) or turn this trick into a proper method, map it to F, and teach the AI about it.
Logged
The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

RawCode

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2013, 05:05:44 AM »

in most games AI cheat and can do thing that impossible for player, like individual control of each weaspon, or some overides for system, it OK and make game more challenging.
Logged

Ravendarke

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
  • Nemesis
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2013, 08:01:26 AM »

Ai always trying to target center of the ship even if it is worst possible target, example: Ship with really low arc but powerful shield, even when the ship is long AI is trying to aim for center, so if that shield is omni it is really easy for player to just point on that ship and complete avoid it´s damage, but if AI would just try to aim for engines/front ship.. choosing it bit randomly, then it would stop low arc shields from being super effective... ofc AI should still try to focus on one place coz of armor, but in this case it should adapt a bit.
Logged

Gothars

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4343
  • Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity.
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2013, 03:11:27 PM »

in most games AI cheat and can do thing that impossible for player, like individual control of each weaspon, or some overides for system, it OK and make game more challenging.

It's the opposite here, though.
Logged
The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Axiege

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 903
  • What a brave and loving name.
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2013, 06:58:40 AM »

Ai always trying to target center of the ship even if it is worst possible target, example: Ship with really low arc but powerful shield, even when the ship is long AI is trying to aim for center, so if that shield is omni it is really easy for player to just point on that ship and complete avoid it´s damage, but if AI would just try to aim for engines/front ship.. choosing it bit randomly, then it would stop low arc shields from being super effective... ofc AI should still try to focus on one place coz of armor, but in this case it should adapt a bit.

I especially noticed this when I was piloting the Banshee in my LP. At first I was worrying about how small its shields are, and then it ended up not mattering because anything actually dangerous to it could be entirely blocked off still.

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3135
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2013, 10:37:01 AM »

Ai always trying to target center of the ship even if it is worst possible target, example: Ship with really low arc but powerful shield, even when the ship is long AI is trying to aim for center, so if that shield is omni it is really easy for player to just point on that ship and complete avoid it´s damage, but if AI would just try to aim for engines/front ship.. choosing it bit randomly, then it would stop low arc shields from being super effective... ofc AI should still try to focus on one place coz of armor, but in this case it should adapt a bit.

I especially noticed this when I was piloting the Banshee in my LP. At first I was worrying about how small its shields are, and then it ended up not mattering because anything actually dangerous to it could be entirely blocked off still.
This is really only relevant to modded ships, though; nothing in the base game has quite that narrow a shield arc.  As such, it'd make a good target for improvement via modded AI in 0.6; I'd think you could probably manage with just a custom autofire AI.
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Hari Seldon

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2013, 06:19:40 PM »

This speed boost exploit works for ships without Burn Drive or phase skip or phase cloak:

1. Have a cruiser (ex: Apogee) with at lest Targeting systems hull mod and maybe the engine speed mod.
2. Rush your ship forward, then when you first detect the enemy get zero flux and reverse the engines.  Don't touch the engines after that to keep the speed boost.
3. The enemy does not appear to use the zero flux speed boost or doesn't notice your extra weapon range?  Anyway they never really close with your ship.
4. Shoot the enemy with your weapons and except for fighters they don't fire anything at you because they are not in range.

Summary: Going backwards while benefiting from speed boost makes it hard for the enemy to close with you so you can pick them off without taking a scratch.
Logged
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Salvor Hardin, Foundation

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3135
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2013, 06:32:50 PM »

Summary: Going backwards while benefiting from speed boost makes it hard for the enemy to close with you so you can pick them off without taking a scratch.
Ah, the good old Monty Python technique.  (Run away!)  This works well even without the speed boost - in small battles, it lets you separate the enemy fleet by speed - and when you're flying a solo cruiser, anything that prevents the enemy from ganging up on you can be life-saving.

That said, the speed boost part of it won't work in 0.6; the game's being changed so that, if you're moving faster than your current top speed, you'll slow down.
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Hari Seldon

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2013, 07:37:54 PM »

The AI knows how to fight phase ships and ships with shields but not players that totally ditch shields.

Without using shields, capacitors become worthless so you can focus on maximum vents, highest-damage weapons, Integrated Targeting Core, and sometimes Heavy Armor.

Any capital ship can do this, but the Onslaught was born for this.  It can solo any size fleet and if it faces another Onslaught the player's aptitudes and skills can make that fight much easier
Logged
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Salvor Hardin, Foundation

Mattk50

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 419
    • View Profile
Re: AI slips/player tricks report thread
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2013, 09:02:17 PM »

There MUST be some kind of bug in the Omen's AI because of some sort of special behavior with the EMP emitter. I've lost about 10 omens in this game now (through save scumming, since we all know they dont restock more than once every few in-game years) and about 7 of those times it was the omen ramming it's unprotected side straight into the shields of my apogee while its trying to EMP the opponent i am also shooting.

It seems as if the omen is trying to orbit at EMP distance and its overriding it's "keep a safe distance and dont suicide into the shields of that friendly ship" behavior.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7