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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Illusion of a Larger System map  (Read 6597 times)

CrashToDesktop

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Illusion of a Larger System map
« on: December 11, 2012, 12:07:14 PM »

Would it be possible to slow down fleet speeds on the system map?  I was thinking that if the fleet speeds are slowed down (to maybe a half or quarter of the original - kind of drastic, but I'll get to that later), you can give the illusion of a larger map (Also get to that later - can be done without modding, to an extent).

Slowing down fleed speeds but percentage would give the illusion of a larger map, takes longer to get from point A to point B, yes.  Make the planets smaller by the same percentage (we'll use 25% of the orginal as an example).  A planet 25% of the original size and going over it with a fleed 25% of the original speed would still take the same amount of time, but takes up less space, therefore making room for more systems..

So my suggestion/question is, can it be possible to mod fleet speed?


And as a side note, being able to mod how big the fleet circle is (more ships/bigger circle) might also help in keeping it semi-normal.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 02:55:25 PM by The Soldier »
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jimy

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Re: Illusion on a Larger System map
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 01:22:00 PM »

Why should you do so?
There isn't actually any benifit in slowing the game down.
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Gothars

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Re: Illusion on a Larger System map
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 01:25:28 PM »

Isn't the system size unlimited anyway? At least you can fly far over the borders of the TAB map.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Illusion on a Larger System map
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 01:30:29 PM »

It's not slowing the game down, it's giving the illusion of a larger system.

You can fly over the map, yes, but you can't use the TAB map to click on things outside of it (or, at least, it will be very zoomed out and hard to pinpoint something).
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Cosmitz

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 04:05:29 PM »

As an idea, i play with constant Shift-pressed double-speed on the map and it still feels slow. There is a point to where gameplay should take the reigns in design and this is it. Only with Oumoz's mod that adds TONS of fleets roaming about does the system finally feel alive and large. It's a matter of perception. When you hit a fleet every few seconds, that long haul to Tri-Tachyon's base in the middle of nowhere actually feels 'in the middle of nowhere' and makes me doublecheck i have enough supplies for the trip.

Slowing the game down, because that's what's happening, by artificially imposing obligatory travel times does not add to the fun and the appeal of the game. Make travel time not be travel time by adding more stuff around to make the trip interesting, like Uomoz does, is one solution. The other is a harsher imposition of supplies needed or use of fuel. That would create expanses of space simply by the fact that your range really would be limited to how many supplies you can take, with the same map sizes.

Different approaches to the same problem, both better than just purely making the map bigger.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 04:11:41 PM »

For example, a system 25% of the original size would still take the normal amount of time to travel.  Let's say you cover a distance of 1000 pixels in 20 seconds at 50 pixels/second.  Take the pixels and time and divide it by 4.  250 pixels in 5 seconds, still at 50 pixels a second.  You can fit more systems into the original map this way without making travel seem longer.  Does it take that much math?
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PCCL

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 04:41:53 PM »

i like the idea of bigger maps, for modding anyway...

maybe customizable travel speeds and fleet size (circle on the map ) will help with that

I would turn travel speeds up and fleet size down, this way your fleet feels fast and you aren't getting bored going anywhere, also the fleet size are small enough to, given a similar decrease in astronomical body sizes, make the map feel like the vast, empty void space is supposed to be
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Hardlyjoking67

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 05:24:14 PM »

For example, a system 25% of the original size would still take the normal amount of time to travel.  Let's say you cover a distance of 1000 pixels in 20 seconds at 50 pixels/second.  Take the pixels and time and divide it by 4.  250 pixels in 5 seconds, still at 50 pixels a second.  You can fit more systems into the original map this way without making travel seem longer.  Does it take that much math?

Wait are you lowering my resolution?  JK. ;D
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Gothars

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 05:30:16 PM »

Wait are you lowering my resolution?  JK. ;D

I did that some time ago, from 1920x1080 to 1600x900. Menu and text readability has much improved and the sprites are bigger without becoming pixelated. I can only recommend it.
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TJJ

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 11:32:19 PM »

.... Or make the map 4x bigger.

Alex has said many times that the current campaign map is a placeholder and is likely to change.
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Hardlyjoking67

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 10:13:35 AM »

Wait are you lowering my resolution?  JK. ;D

I did that some time ago, from 1920x1080 to 1600x900. Menu and text readability has much improved and the sprites are bigger without becoming pixelated. I can only recommend it.

Are you really a PC gamer?  No PC gamer with any sense of decency would lower his resolution.  ;D
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Gothars

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 10:22:40 AM »

Wait are you lowering my resolution?  JK. ;D

I did that some time ago, from 1920x1080 to 1600x900. Menu and text readability has much improved and the sprites are bigger without becoming pixelated. I can only recommend it.

Are you really a PC gamer?  No PC gamer with any sense of decency would lower his resolution.  ;D

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It's a bit unusual to have low resolution menus in a high resolution game, though. The last time I had this problem was back in Baldur's Gate days. I have suggested a menu zoom setting, but as long as that is no option I will make do with low resolution.
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Reshy

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 10:38:57 AM »

Space is dull enough as it is, unless there was something to do in-transit then what's the point?
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 11:52:19 AM »

Umm...back on topic.

Anyways, the transit it nothing to worry about, the systems would be close together and one planet from one system might be near another planet from the other system.
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xenoargh

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Re: Illusion of a Larger System map
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 03:45:47 PM »

Quote
Would it be possible to slow down fleet speeds on the system map?
Simple answer, yes, it's possible to do right now via code in a mod.

Question then becomes, as Reshy put it:  what's the point? 

Pure travel is the least-interesting aspect of any RPG, and in a space RPG where we don't have anything to do other than dodge enemy fleets, it's doubly boring.  If there were random encounters, arcade challenges, etc., to make it challenging and interesting (all of this is possible atm or very nearly) then, well, that half-hour spent going from Gamma Spiculae IV to Circe A is time spent on meaningful, fun activity, not just a waste of our precious time on this Earth.

If anything, I honestly feel that this aspect of Starfarer is one of the biggest in need of a re-think or elaboration as the game matures. 

I've played enough RPGs that there is very little joy in travel for its own sake, especially in a space RPG on a large scale (i.e., there aren't varied environments that matter). 

This isn't like Fallout 3, where I was like, "whoa, there's a new rock I haven't seen, next to a building- wait, are those Deathclaaaaaaaaah.... <thud, squish>". 

Instead, it's like, "hey, it's a planet with art I've seen before, with a station that looks like every other station, circling a sun that looks like a sun".  Or, if playing Vanilla, it's like, "hey, it's Corvus, that place that hasn't changed a bit".  But I only play in Corvus if testing somebody else's mod.

I've even set up the randomizer in Vacuum to produce some major random variations... it just doesn't matter a whole lot.  It's still star, planet, moon, asteroid belt, dodge-the-fleets.  Nowhere feels unique or interesting.

Freelancer had a pretty good fix for this problem, by making the travel faster and getting rid of a lot of the boring stuff ++ having a lot of support for interesting content to make the individual systems memorable- things like different ambient backgrounds, gas clouds that made it hard to see around your ship and reduced sensor distances, radioactive danger zones, even minefields and automated enemies hiding out.  This plus fast-travel made for a beautiful and memorable but non-dragging travel experience.

But even that got fairly dull and frustrating after a while.  If you went on one of the really epic high-end trade runs, it could take an hour or more, just traveling.  All we're doing during this is moving stuff on a FedEx to make a little money, yo; it was way, way more fun to take missions instead, even if it didn't pay as well.

I really think Fallout 3 got it right, by allowing us to skip this stuff once we've been somewhere before.

I just want to hit a button to send me Here and either have random encounters that are fun and interesting or just Get There.  No in-between with dull dodge-the-fleets stuff. 

There are so, so many other ways to handle chases between fleets, for example; have our ship's "mass sensors" set to different "sensitivities", which would directly impact how many random encounter choices we get during a journey, for example.
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