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[K-64]

Alright, I'm not putting this in suggestions, because I'm not suggesting it, mainly opening the avenue for discussing. A debate about the subject at hand, if you will. Anywho, with that out of the way, I shall begin.

Well, as we all know, in the modern age with game AI, "difficulty levels" translates into a different way than it should. It's all fake difficulty from giving the AI access to resource cheats, construction speed buffs or just giving them free units. I'm sure a large majority of you would agree that this is an extremely cheap way of "adding challenge" to the game. Now here, we have Starfarer, a game that, for me, has the best AI I have seen in a bloody long time. AI that uses skill, rather than stat buffs to out-manoeuvre and at times out-think the player. Now, what if in the campaign startup/mission screen (both, obviously. But since it's two different screens, yadda yadda yadda) there was a set of buttons for the difficulty level (easy, medium, hard. Or however many is practical) with the AI being smarter/dumber depending on the option. So like in easy, the AI is a bit simpler in the way it goes about, makes more mistakes and crew for both the player and AI ships are one level down (Elite has the accuracy of Veteran, etc.). Conversely, the harder AI would be more punishing in regards to player mistakes and the gunnery AI is one level up.
I know this type of thing would take ages to properly implement, considering the amount of AI writing that would need to be done, so that's why it's not a suggestion. It's more food for thought and comparing ideas of what difficult AI should be, etc.

I've rambled enough, so I'll open up the discussion... now.

Spoiler

P.S. This is mostly a ramblish post, and I am sorry for that

[close]

[naufrago]

I kinda like the current system where the player can choose to take half damage if they want an easier time of things. I'd actually rather have more options in that regard rather than have the AI behave particularly differently, mainly because it seems like it would be much less work to implement for a similar outcome. As long as I can determine what 'cheats' the AI has available to it, I'm fine with that system. That being said, I like to keep all the cheats for myself. >=)

If different levels of AI intelligence were to come into play, I'd like to see it be because you'd be fighting enemy admirals of varying experience and intelligence. In that case, I suppose it would be fine to create a difficulty option where you're more likely to encounter smarter enemy AI more often, but it seems like a lot of work for questionable payoff.

Just bare in mind, if the enemy can be stuck with an intentionally dumb AI piloting an expensive ship, your fleet could also be stuck with a dumb AI pilot or two. You can't pilot everything yourself all the time, after all. =p

[Faiter119]

Id think remaking the AI for the sake of difficulty would take a long time and would also not show of the game AI in its full form, and that would be a terrible waste.

If there were to be several difficulty settings, Id say leave the AI alone, and add some simple buffs instead. Like extra cash, less dmg and so on.

[Gothars]

that would be a terrible waste.

Yes, that's my problem with AI downgrading. The smart ship AI is one of SF's main assets, to dumb it down for lower difficulty is like hiding all graphic details in an ego-shooter for easier target identification.
 
By the way, I hope the admiral AI will make any use of the new command system, it's much more predictable than the ship AI. Sending multiple ships for capture would be a start.

[maximilianyuen]

since there has a large amount of random fleets of different size, and in the future different captain with different skills, ai difficulty is not much needed i think

rather, a selection of startup conditions like resource, position, fleet type/condition may serve the purpose better?

[K-64]

The thing is, stuff like less damage and stuff is just the same as the AI resource cheats in essence. They don't really make you think any different. Just shoot at the enemy more/less until they're dead again.

rather, a selection of startup conditions like resource, position, fleet type/condition may serve the purpose better?

A good point, although that only really applies to the start to the beginning of the midgame at latest

[hadesian]

I've always detested AI difficulty settings because the moment you touch them your brain immediately starts getting frustrated and yells at unbalanced problems and starts noticing flaws.

If I pick out one game that's completely criminal for that it's Mount and Blade Warband. Maybe it was just my army but I had real difficulty justifying playing on Good AI because it made everyone like the freaking veteran bots from combat training on BLOPS. Ever played terminator?

If I'm honest, no AI settings would make really damn tough AI way more bearable.  Yer brain'll notice otherwise - and it'll seriously frustrate you

[intothewildblueyonder]

I do think it would be a very good feature of the game to have different fleets and factions to utilize different strategies and tactics. It does sound like something that would define as well as differentiate between them.

I remember reading an article in which an RTS developer claimed that while they could in theory make better AI only a few players would really notice the difference between a cheating AI and a smarter AI, which would more resources to develop.

However, I have found some mods for C&C-Generals that claim to eliminate the cheating AI and made an AI that is much better (it is certainly harder to beat).

[Gothars]

I don't mind some "unfair" advantages for the AI, as long as they don't influence what tactics are viable. For example a 10% higher flux dissipation can make the difference between being able to overcome shields with support weapons or not. If the enemy has 10% more HP you can basically act the same, but the AI has a bit more room to compensate bloopers.

[hadesian]

If I'm actually being all the more honest, it should be that the AI get no bonuses over the player but just behave really smartly.

[Gothars]

If I'm actually being all the more honest, it should be that the AI get no bonuses over the player but just behave really smartly.

Sure, that would be optimal, but there are limits to the AI. It will never be able to compete with a decent player. At the moment that is compensated by the fact that you usually fight superior numbers. But  in the campaign you can choose your enemies and even obtain new skills as you progress so the game might become to easy. The next update will bring the iron mode, which makes the game unforgiving for big mistakes, but I would not mind for the individual fights to be a bit harder, too. As an option obviously.

[Gothars]

Some modern games use special modes for difficulty regulation that the player can toggle independently. Bastion did this with it's godly idols, Project Eternity will do it with it's Path of the Damned / Trial of Iron / Expert Mode.

I like this principle a lot, and SF has some beginnings of that with it's 50% player damage / Iron mode. Best would be to expand that I think.

An example would be a mode where heavy hull damage decreases the ship's stats on the system map. So cargo/crew capacity would would be reduced, accidents due to exceeding the limits would be more likely. Travel speed would be reduced, so the fleet would be vulnerable to attacks and the player might have to abandon the damaged ship.

Stuff like that. Any good ideas?

[arcibalde]

An example would be a mode where heavy hull damage decreases the ship's stats on the system map. So cargo/crew capacity would would be reduced, accidents due to exceeding the limits would be more likely. Travel speed would be reduced, so the fleet would be vulnerable to attacks and the player might have to abandon the damaged ship.

Stuff like that. Any good ideas?

Smart! I wouldn't touch crew capacity but reducing cargo capacity is great idea. You would be forced to throw out some cargo to not have accidents.