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Author Topic: Make boarding a real choice  (Read 25268 times)

icepick37

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2012, 12:05:44 PM »

I love ftl, too. But starfarer isn't ftl, and the choice with combat was supposed to save you from trivial micro battles. I think boarding shouldn't be such a big focus of the game as to require a mini-game AND a separate system to bypass it. And I don't really like the idea of boarding being a mini-game either. The OP is pretty much spot on for how I think boarding should be advanced from its current state.
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intothewildblueyonder

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2012, 12:31:02 PM »

What I am mainly concerned with is how important being able to board a ship can be and how relegating it to dice rolls can be frustrating. It may not occur as often that you desire a specific ship, but if you really want to capture the ship, for example a paragon, it is really frustrating to know that you only get to roll the dice and hope for the best. This frustration also stems from the dice roll on whether or not a ship will become boardable - if you could increase your chances (other than not destroying a ship) I think the choice would make more sense.

What I liked about FTL and what I think is applicable to stafarer, was it how it gave you other options in combat such as the surrender of the enemy crew and or the demand of items. Although I think such things are in the works for starfarer already, I'm not sure if they are meant to show up in the middle of combat

(icepick - somehow I just knew you liked FTL  :))
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Gothars

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2012, 01:03:19 PM »

@ Thaago: Thanks for saving me the trouble of answering, I can confirm/agree with everything you said.

@ Icepick:  :)
 

What I am mainly concerned with is how important being able to board a ship can be and how relegating it to dice rolls can be frustrating.

I think the current purely luck based (assuming you packed enough marines) boarding is frustrating, too. But the difficulty to get something you want  has to be well balanced. If you try to totally avoid frustration the mechanic ends up too easy and you make it boring for the player. Regardless of it being a dice system or a minigame. With this idea we remove a good portion of the luck factor, since you can (with a bit luck) decide what ship you will try to capture and how much effort/risk it is worth to you.

Btw. the occasional surrender of the enemy crew is already part of the game, it means you can board a ship without marines.

for bigger ships that have heftier docking ports (therefore harder to break through) you could have a specific type of boarding ship
I think the difficulty of boarding big ships is accounted for by their huge crew size. To require a specialized ship would kinda defeat the idea of making the risky choice of a boarding attempt.
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icepick37

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2012, 02:15:52 PM »

What I am mainly concerned with is how important being able to board a ship can be

(icepick - somehow I just knew you liked FTL  :))
We don't really know this yet. The overarching gameplay right now is very much placeholder. If it was THAT important, then I'd totally agree with you. I feel like purchasign/manufacturing ships will be WAY more important in the final game than occasional boarding action. We just don't know yet, though.

(what gave me away?)


Btw. the occasional surrender of the enemy crew is already part of the game, it means you can board a ship without marines.

Thought that was only when the crew was all dead, though.
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Hyph_K31

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2012, 02:19:00 PM »

Ships will surrender if they didn't have enough crew to join the fight.

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Gothars

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2012, 02:24:21 PM »

Thought that was only when the crew was all dead, though.

You may be right, I only recently discovered that you can check how many of the crew survived. "Surrender" would be a somewhat morbid way of putting that, though.



Mh, I would like to hear opinions on the "should multiple docking ships be allowed?" question brought up here. I'm really not sure about it right now.
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Catra

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2012, 02:43:45 PM »

Catra: its not the questions he doesn't like - they are very good questions that will probably help refine this suggestion.

What people don't like is your hyper-confrontational way of saying that you disagree or that someone hasn't answered a question to your liking.




firstly, time of events is important:

he sent the PM BEFORE that was posted, there was absolutely nothing confrontational in those posts.

secondly,

there's a huge difference between "not to my liking" and "completely dodging the question", go learn what they are.


thirdly

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This whole post is just you sarcastically whining

you clearly don't know what these words mean, please don't post things that you clearly don't know how to use.




this is my last post to you, you are not someone i want to conversate with.



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I would like to hear opinions on the "should multiple docking ships be allowed?"


i say that only the capital ships should be allowed to have multiple ships dock at it, since it would probably require the use of multiple teams to actually force a takeover.
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icepick37

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2012, 02:45:14 PM »

There's also the fact that you'd need to dock at multiple entry points.
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K-64

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2012, 03:33:27 PM »

Yeah, but at that point there'd probably be multiple entry points... well technically it would be hull damage, but whatever :P
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Thaago

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2012, 03:43:38 PM »

... go learn what they are.

...

... that you clearly don't know how to use.

I can understand being defensive but if all you can do to defend yourself is sling insults... *shrug*. The only reason I posted what I did was in the hope that you would learn why what you were doing was making others upset. It doesn't look like I reached you though.
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Gothars

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2012, 03:53:54 PM »

Honestly Catra, I'm no longer willing to deal with your rude manners, as OP I ask you to please stay away from this thread. If you've got questions PM me.

There's also the fact that you'd need to dock at multiple entry points.

I was trying to address that:
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It should have limit's though, maybe 2 frigates could dock on a frigate, 3 on a destroyer, 4 on a cruiser and 5 on a cap or something like this. For docking destroyers it's those numbers -1, for cruiser -2, for caps -3 (with a minimum of 1 obviously).

I'm more concerned what multi-docking would imply for balancing. One nice thing about the system is, as harrumph said, that it gives another out-of-combat value to certain ships with huge crew capacities. If multiple ships can dock that value is severely diminished.
And then there is the point of fast fleets with only frigates being very limited in their boarding abilities without multi-boarding. I'm undecided if that's a good or a bad thing.



« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 04:04:31 PM by Gothars »
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K-64

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2012, 03:59:29 PM »

Frankly, if you feel the way that someone's posting is flamebaiting/trolling/whatever, instead of going "Shut it you troll, I have no interest in you" (paraphrased), just report the post and be done with it. Replying to a post with hostility will only breed more of the same. Kinda makes it a facepalm-inducing experience to read threads that are just *** slinging matches between two sides. Some people may need to learn a bit about charisma, true, but others really do need to get themselves some thicker skin.

Bah, I hate ranting like this. Makes me feel like an ***. Anyway, this post is entirely off-topic, though I really needed to get that off my chest, so whatever.
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Alex

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2012, 04:27:11 PM »

@Catra: Please be respectful and polite towards others - it's not what you say (as a matter of fact, I think you often make good points), it's how you say it. It's possible to disagree with someone and remain polite throughout.

The next time I - or any of the other mods - see this type of behavior, you will receive a temporary ban. The time after that, it will be permanent.

Even if you feel you're being provoked, don't respond in kind - and that goes for everyone.


@Everyone: To echo what K-64 said, yes, it's best to simply report offending posts and carry on. We had a really good discussion going here, but it got rather hopelessly sidetracked. I'm tempted to delete a bunch of stuff to get the thread back on track, but I think I'll leave all the posts in place, at least for now - but, any further off-topic posts here will be subject to moderation of both post and poster.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 04:30:03 PM by Alex »
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Uxion

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2012, 04:27:33 PM »

Can we also consider the experience level of the marines as well?

Whether the experience translates to actual experience and/or better equipment is irrelevant.
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Catra

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Re: Make boarding a real choice
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2012, 05:13:21 PM »

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If multiple ships can dock that value is severely diminished.

this would just simply increase the value of high capacity ships, as you would be risking less and push the more dangerous outcomes either further or completely off the table.


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Can we also consider the experience level of the marines as well?

this is also something that would definitely need to go in, if only because i would want to know what the chances are of them not being able to diffuse a self destruct mechanism in time so i can make a more informed decision.
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