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Author Topic: Warp drive more feasible than first thought  (Read 22611 times)

Gaizokubanou

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #75 on: September 25, 2012, 02:56:28 PM »

Just to get this topic a slight dose of reality check...

Have we even got to the point to measure anything faster than light?  I think not and it's kinda weird talking about something we haven't even began to measure yet.  Then again the gist of FTL travels are not about actually moving faster than light but taking shortcuts through space... am I somewhere on the somewhat right area here or am I just seriously misinformed?
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naufrago

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2012, 03:58:41 PM »

Just to get this topic a slight dose of reality check...

Have we even got to the point to measure anything faster than light?  I think not and it's kinda weird talking about something we haven't even began to measure yet.  Then again the gist of FTL travels are not about actually moving faster than light but taking shortcuts through space... am I somewhere on the somewhat right area here or am I just seriously misinformed?

I don't really understand your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway.

Things that are slower than the speed of light can never go faster than the speed of light (well, that's not 100% true- look up Cherenkov radiation), and things that are faster than the speed of light can never be slower than the speed of light. It's theoretically impossible. The speed of light in a vacuum is basically a threshold that nothing can cross- at least, not without exploiting some loopholes in the way the universe works. We have no way of exploiting those loopholes just yet.

Currently, we have no way of detecting tachyonic matter (matter that travels faster than light). In fact, we're not even sure that stuff exists. I don't know much more than that, so I can't really answer anything about it.
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Gothars

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #77 on: September 25, 2012, 04:51:47 PM »

Yes, it would be possible to find one of the habitable universes, but the chances of that are infinitesimally small, given the fact that, there are more universes without our reality structure than with. Even if we did find one, there could be very big problems - The primary gas could be cyanide gas, or chlorine. Non-Euclidean geometry could be in effect. If we're really unlucky, we could find Cthulu.

This surpasses my mathematical knowledge, but as I understand it, because we are calculating with infinity, it's just as likely. If we have an infinite number of possibilities every subset of those possibilities is infinite as well. So the number of possibilities included in a (habitable-) subset is the same number as all possibilities. If you randomly choose one, the chance that it belongs to a subset of size infinity against the chance that it belongs to the total amount of size infinity is infinity:infinity.
Which might, and here I'm really not sure again, be the same as 1:1 or 50% chance of finding a habitable planet.

If someone would like to correct everything I just said that person would be very welcome.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 06:30:33 PM by Gothars »
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naufrago

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #78 on: September 25, 2012, 06:20:09 PM »

Yes, it would be possible to find one of the habitable universes, but the chances of that are infinitesimally small, given the fact that, there are more universes without our reality structure than with. Even if we did find one, there could be very big problems - The primary gas could be cyanide gas, or chlorine. Non-Euclidean geometry could be in effect. If we're really unlucky, we could find Cthulu.

This surpasses my mathematical knowledge, but as I understand it, because we are calculating with infinity, it's just as likely. If we have an infinite number of possibilities every subset of those possibilities is infinite as well. So the number of possibilities included in a (habitable-) subset is the same number as all possibilities. If you randomly choose one, the chance that it belongs to a subset of size ? against the chance that it belongs to the total amount of size ? is ?:?.
Which might, and here I'm really not sure again, be the same as 1:1 or 50% chance of finding a habitable planet.

If someone would like to correct everything I just said that person would be very welcome.

Infinity isn't quite as simple as that; two sets of numbers can both be infinite, but one set can still be larger than the other. For example, there are more Real numbers than Natural numbers. That being said, there are just as many even integers as there are integers. That's not a typo. It just depends on the cardinality of the infinite set.
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Thaago

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2012, 07:27:53 PM »

The whole parallel universe interpretation comes from quantum mechanics... so unfortunately has absolutely nothing to do with wormholes, bending space, or anything else general relativity based. This is a consequence of the fact that quantum mechanics and general relativity, while they are both the most experimentally verified theories of how things work, have nothing to do with each other and cannot (yet) be combined in a meaningful way. A wormhole to another universe would not be an 'alternate' universe in the many worlds sense, but would rather be another pocket of space like our own that is causally disconnected from our own universe (example: its farther away in light years than our universe is old and the 'space' between is expanding faster than local light speed, so nothing from our universe can possibly affect it. Except (maybe) through a wormhole or other horrible distortion of spacetime).

About FTL: the proposed drive isn't making the spaceship move faster than light - its making the space around the spaceship displace relative to the fixed stars and carrying the spaceship along. This is theorized to happen by stretching the space in rear and compressing the space ahead - and the rate of stretch/compress of spacetime is not limited by the speed of light. The math is messy and I've never read the papers describing it in detail, so thats about all I can say.

The new discovery isn't exciting because its immediately applicable, but because it radically lowers what we might have to achieve 100 years from now. The energy cited in an article I read (about the mass of one of the voyager probes) is equivalent to the energy output of the United States over about 4 years. Thats actually a conceivable amount, even if its a heck of a lot more than we can do now.

For stuff about infinity look up 'countably infinite' and 'uncountably infinite'. Its not the whole picture but really drives home that there are several types of 'infinite'.
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #80 on: September 26, 2012, 07:24:42 PM »

Just to get this topic a slight dose of reality check...

Have we even got to the point to measure anything faster than light?  I think not and it's kinda weird talking about something we haven't even began to measure yet.  Then again the gist of FTL travels are not about actually moving faster than light but taking shortcuts through space... am I somewhere on the somewhat right area here or am I just seriously misinformed?

I don't really understand your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway.

Things that are slower than the speed of light can never go faster than the speed of light (well, that's not 100% true- look up Cherenkov radiation), and things that are faster than the speed of light can never be slower than the speed of light. It's theoretically impossible. The speed of light in a vacuum is basically a threshold that nothing can cross- at least, not without exploiting some loopholes in the way the universe works. We have no way of exploiting those loopholes just yet.

Currently, we have no way of detecting tachyonic matter (matter that travels faster than light). In fact, we're not even sure that stuff exists. I don't know much more than that, so I can't really answer anything about it.

You understood my question just fine, those were pretty much the kind of response I was looking for.  Thanks~
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