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[arcibalde]

I'm just saying that we are extremely dangerous species (for us and everyone else) and, on top of that, we didn't "evolve", a tiny bit from some primal point of view. We still kill each other -.- after all that progress and spirituality and...

[K-64]

...and what's to say that other intelligent species wouldn't be the same? The reason that humans are the dominant species of Earth is because we are dangerous. You don't get to being the top of the heap by being little Ms. Primrose now, do you?

[Faiter119]

Im pretty sure just about every animal fight and kill each other.

[arcibalde]

...and what's to say that other intelligent species wouldn't be the same?

Who knows...

The reason that humans are the dominant species of Earth is because we are dangerous. You don't get to being the top of the heap by being little Ms. Primrose now, do you?

We pass long time ago point for territorial/bare survival against animals. It's one thing killing animals/plants for food/territory/protection and another thing killing another human for whatsoever reason. All these years of "evolution" and we still kill each others. We, humanity, didn't get to the point when killing another human being is absolute NO-NO option for all of us. So i will give one extremely hideous example. IF YOU ARE UNDER AGE DO NOT READ SPOILER.

Spoiler

Imagine if someone eat baby. 99,9999999999% of world population would condemn such act.
Now, imagine that reaction for killing other human being.

[close]

[Aratoop]

Ok... you're using the word 'evolve' to mean socially evolving, not biologically, as you are saying. Evolution is simply because of the fact that genes can't be copied perfectly, and sometimes these mistakes bring advantages. That's all. It does not make us any more moral. Yes we kill eachother, but what of it?

[arcibalde]

Ok... you're using the word 'evolve' to mean socially evolving, not biologically, as you are saying. Evolution is simply because of the fact that genes can't be copied perfectly, and sometimes these mistakes bring advantages.

Yes, i mean evolution of conscience not biological evolution. The way we think...

Yes we kill eachother, but what of it?

Nothing, just saying that we are still very low level about that. It's like we didn't progress with it all this time...

[Gothars]

Ok... you're using the word 'evolve' to mean socially evolving, not biologically, as you are saying. Evolution is simply because of the fact that genes can't be copied perfectly, and sometimes these mistakes bring advantages.

Yes, i mean evolution of conscience not biological evolution. The way we think...

Nothing, just saying that we are still very low level about that. It's like we didn't progress with it all this time...

That is just not true, the moral progression* is enormous.  The very idea of human rights would be laughable for people of the middle ages. We condemned slavery, we condemned child labor, we condemned racism and misogyny and many other things that were common and unchallenged in the past. Sure, all those things still exist in some forms and places, but they have been identified as malice and are fought against.

I fear many people take for granted all the rights, freedoms and safety's they posses and don't realize how hard great men and women fought in the past (and are still fighting) to archive those. There's still a lot to do, but humanity is in fact bettering itself.


*evolution is a non-directional term, doesn't mean that anythings get's better, just that it changes

[arcibalde]

I'm just saying that people still kill each other.We kill each other 100 years ago, we kill each other 1000 years ago we kill each other 10.000 years ago etc. We still kill each others.

WAR!!!

Send troops kill other humans (enemy). It's same thing all this time. Weapons are different but it's same thing. And not wars only. people kill each other for other reasons too. But all that is same thing.

Like, we are still animals on that level... We progress (more or less) in others areas but there we are still at lvl 1.

[Gothars]

You seem to see it as a bimodal (being the one thing or the other) state, but it is not. What i'm saying is that the killing has become less widespread.


Oh, and to be horrified and disgusted by what you mention in your spoilers is not a conscious moral decision but a inherent biological instinct. Like avoiding incest or hurting yourself. To have the same instinctive reaction to human killing social progress would not be sufficient, it would require biological alteration. I'm not sure if it is desirable to improve us that way.

[Upgradecap]

So? Without war there wouldn't be peace. Without war there wouldn't be tech. I mean, compare Pre-WWII to WWII. Technology advanced at a rate much higher than the Pre-war tech. New inventions where designed, which, in the end, became crucial to space travel.


I don't see any problems with war. That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.

[K-64]

I don't see any problems with war. That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.

I simply cannot agree to that point. There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING glorious about war.

[Upgradecap]

Wrongly termed then (excuse me, but i would not know a better term for it), but again, war has led to some good things. Like aforementioned tech advances. Or some stuff like that. Although i would agree that todays wars are rather meaningless. Atleast WWII had a cause behind it (for both sides too). Today is more of a war over drugs than anything.

[Gothars]

I don't see any problems with war. That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.

I find it hard to believe that you could seriously mean something as cruel, deluded, and altogether inhuman as that. It disgusts me. I really hope you just did not think properly before writing.

I could write for hours how utterly wrong this it, but let me just say this: in world war 2 there were about 25 Million  soldiers killed in war but about 50 million civilians. Aside from the question if there was any glory for the soldiers or what that is even worth, there sure is non to be found for those 50 million death children, women and men.

[Gaizokubanou]

That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.

There is a huge difference between dying of old age at 60+ (some of your organs slowly giving out and can't perform their function) and dying at 0 ~ 100 because your body was ripped to pieces... yeah modern weaponry will still shred your body to pieces, it just does it better than bunch of guys with swords and axes.

You can go ahead and enjoy having your body destroyed by bullets and bombs

Not to mention war tends to get boatload of non combatants killed... how glorious is it when kids and elderly are buried alive in their home from bombing?

Also tech evolve without war.  What war does is funnel lot of resources into war-related techs.  Granted military techs are important for any society to resist outside force, but to think that people come up with most of their inventions during war is misinformed.

Edit: Upgradecap is 15 years old... that probably explains how war looks glorious to him/her.

[arcibalde]

So? Without war there wouldn't be peace. Without war there wouldn't be tech. I mean, compare Pre-WWII to WWII. Technology advanced at a rate much higher than the Pre-war tech. New inventions where designed, which, in the end, became crucial to space travel.


I don't see any problems with war. That way, you can die a glorious death rather than that of age. The question of dying is not if, but when.

Did you go in war or did any war come at you? Did you see with your own eye's in flesh (not on television) what war can do? Do you know sound of tomahawk flying over your head or sound of ammunition storage explosion just 2 km from you, shattering all glasses on building and open all fridge doors (in entire building) and earth shake so hard that you instantly sit down. Too see and feel panic all around you all the time... It's... It's... unimaginable...

I have friend (my mom and dad godfather/bridesman) who was in war, couple of months, he come back on some kind of relief and he hid at my home so they couldn't find him to get him back on front lines. He was staying with us about 6 months and first 2-3 months he barely could speak and after that he speak only simple sentences. Only after 6 months he start, gradually, to speak normal.

Another dude i know do not have any facial hair, not eyelashes, not eyebrows, not hair, not beard, nothing. He watched column of people who were returning from the front. From that sight he lost every bit of hair on his face and it never come back...

War is most stupid/dumb thing that people "invented", and still stick to it. To say that war is something OK is just... wrong.


@Gothars I didn't aim at instinctive reaction to human killing I aim at conscious reaction to human killing like instinctive reaction... BLAH! I can't express myself good enough.

Yeah i know that Upgradecap is 15 years old but where is this world going if more of his generation see war like him. As technological improvement of human race. Upgrade there is no point in technology advancements if you are dead.