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Author Topic: Minor bugs with the patrol order  (Read 2243 times)

Gothars

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Minor bugs with the patrol order
« on: September 19, 2012, 03:48:57 AM »

After toying with that order for some time I noticed the following things:

- 1 Xyphos Wing is regarded as sufficient for "patrol", but mightier ships like the Tempest or Hyperion need additional craft

- The AI doesn't hesitate to assign strike craft (tested with Piranhas) for patrol, even if more suitable ships are on standby

- Ships with patrol order stay fixed and motionless on their target, there's no behavior involved that could in any way be considered patrolling. I don't know if the behavior is faulty or the name is just misplaced.
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Reshy

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Re: Minor bugs with the patrol order
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 04:38:26 PM »

Speaking of Patrol, I wish that it allowed you to make ships fly between two waypoints so that they actually feel like they're patrolling rather than defending.
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K-64

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Re: Minor bugs with the patrol order
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 05:10:06 PM »

After toying with that order for some time I noticed the following things:

- 1 Xyphos Wing is regarded as sufficient for "patrol", but mightier ships like the Tempest or Hyperion need additional craft

It might be considering an individual Xyphos fighter in the same category as a Tempest or Hyperion, since both of those are "small" frigates and the Xyphos is a fairly hefty fighter in its own right
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Gothars

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Re: Minor bugs with the patrol order
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2012, 02:45:30 PM »

After toying with that order for some time I noticed the following things:

- 1 Xyphos Wing is regarded as sufficient for "patrol", but mightier ships like the Tempest or Hyperion need additional craft

It might be considering an individual Xyphos fighter in the same category as a Tempest or Hyperion, since both of those are "small" frigates and the Xyphos is a fairly hefty fighter in its own right

This seems to be the case, if one Xyphos is destroyed the remaining one is treated like any other frigate/heavy wing and get's assistance. Still a bug though, a single Xyphos is inferior to frigates and heavy wings. To upgrade the AIs judgement for elite frigates could also be a solution, if the stood together with the Xyphos wing on the "only one unit needed" pedestal it would not seem strange.


I noticed another issue: Sometimes up to five units react to a patrol order. I had a Talon wing, a Longbow wing, a Hound and a Shade fly to a single navpoint, that are 21FP. Another time 3 Talon Wings and 2 Hounds (15FP).
I have no clue how the assignment and prioritization for "patrol" is supposed to work, but this seems to much.
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LostInTheWired

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Re: Minor bugs with the patrol order
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2012, 12:18:58 AM »

Speaking of Patrol, I wish that it allowed you to make ships fly between two waypoints so that they actually feel like they're patrolling rather than defending.

That's only because RTS games have used patrol wrong.  How patrol is used currently is actually the correct use of the term.  It just...doesn't quite design the patrols right.  If only I could give patrol goals to help the AI understand the point of the patrol instead of just a general "patrol" command, as that's just not enough.

Here if you want a Wikipedia definition:  "In military tactics, a patrol is a small tactical unit sent out from a larger unit by land, sea or air for the purpose of combat, reconnaissance, or a combination of both. The basic task of a patrol is to follow a known route at which sent to investigate some feature of interest, or to fighting patrols (US combat patrol), sent to find and engage the enemy."
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Reshy

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Re: Minor bugs with the patrol order
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2012, 03:04:40 PM »

Speaking of Patrol, I wish that it allowed you to make ships fly between two waypoints so that they actually feel like they're patrolling rather than defending.

That's only because RTS games have used patrol wrong.  How patrol is used currently is actually the correct use of the term.  It just...doesn't quite design the patrols right.  If only I could give patrol goals to help the AI understand the point of the patrol instead of just a general "patrol" command, as that's just not enough.

Here if you want a Wikipedia definition:  "In military tactics, a patrol is a small tactical unit sent out from a larger unit by land, sea or air for the purpose of combat, reconnaissance, or a combination of both. The basic task of a patrol is to follow a known route at which sent to investigate some feature of interest, or to fighting patrols (US combat patrol), sent to find and engage the enemy."


But that's not how it's used in starfarer either, it's just used as a lesser 'defend' command that doesn't send your entire fleet there.
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Gothars

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Re: Minor bugs with the patrol order
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2012, 03:33:54 PM »

Please no discussion in here, this thread is not about how realistic or useful the patrol order is, but about it's bugs.
 I suspect that the whole thing is not really finished and somewhat neglected, maybe Alex will take care of it when time comes or maybe he will  scrap it altogether, so no use debating about this now.

Please don't reply to this post either.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.