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Author Topic: New midline capture order  (Read 5288 times)

Gothars

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New midline capture order
« on: September 17, 2012, 02:34:15 PM »

Currently you have two orders to capture a nav-buoy, "capture" and "assault". The first sends a single wing or frigate, the second sends all available combat craft.

Assault is not suitable for the early phase of an engagement since it detracts your big ships from their tasks.
But in gameplay reality I often find a single ship not enough to capture an objective, especially if you know that it will have to compete with enemy ships. So, naturally, I want my capturing crafts to have an advantage. That leads to awkward situations, I have to give escort orders, those mix up the capture assignments and it all degrades into micromanagement (and CP waste). The whole point of the objective based command system is to avoid that, right?

The simplest solution I can think of would be to introduce a new capture order between "capture" and "assault" that sends either two frigates/wings or a single destroyer, depending on availability and speed/distance. I don't care what it's name would be, I will just call it "raid" for simplicity.
That way you could "capture" objectives on your side of the map and "raid" those in disputed territory. No more watching frustrated as the talon wing is chased away by some broadsword as you saw coming from the start. I think it might even lead to some interesting new strategies, guessing where the enemy will just "capture" and "raid" there, deciding if to spread or strengthen your capturing forces...
As a side effect it would help fleets with to few light craft by enabling destroyers to capture.

An added function could be to convert the "raid" order once the objective is taken (as happens with assault) into something like "protect" which will cause  a single frigate or wing to stay behind and keep enemies from easily recapturing.

So, what do you think?



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icepick37

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 02:46:24 PM »

What's wrong with just assigning manually the ships you want?
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Gothars

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 02:52:55 PM »

1) You can't send more than one ship that way
2) It costs 2x CP
3) It's micromanagement, the point of the command system is to not have to decide which specific ships does which job


Did you not run into that problem while playing?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 02:54:59 PM by Gothars »
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Thaago

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2012, 05:03:13 PM »

I am absolutely, 100% with the OP here. I will often have to sit and stare at the objective map waiting to retreat units if they encounter heavy resistance. A single destroyer or a pair of lighter ships is sometimes exactly what the doctor ordered, and having a ship stay behind means that I at least have time to scramble more ships for defense if the enemy assaults the position.

It really can't be accomplished manually - you can assign escorts to the craft you think will be assigned, but thats a crap shoot. And also a ton of CP's.
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icepick37

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2012, 07:57:44 PM »

1) You can't send more than one ship that way
2) It costs 2x CP
3) It's micromanagement, the point of the command system is to not have to decide which specific ships does which job

1) I've sent more than one ship this way.
2) It does cost more cp, but that's kind of the point of the current system.
3) It IS micro, yes. The point of the command system is to reduce micro, but not eliminate it. To streamline and deemphasize I'd say. But you are still able to micro when needed.

Did you not run into that problem while playing?

I don't usually try to step out of the bounds of the normal command system so often. If I can't take more than one command point properly with the cp I have, then I focus on fewer points. That's not to say you have to play like I do, though.

I think what you want is already possible. Yes at a cp hit, but I think that's the point. What you want IS fine grained control, and there's a method in place for doing it.
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GUNINANRUNIN

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2012, 08:52:48 PM »

Quote
I've sent more than one ship this way.
To capture a point? How did you do that?
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icepick37

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 08:56:44 PM »

You assign a point for capture, then click on the ship you want to assign and choose "Assign Task..."  Then you click on the capture point. You can do as many ships as you want. The auto-assigned ship will be unassigned after the first, though. So it'll be 1cp plus another cp for each ship assigned this way.
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Gothars

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 12:29:49 AM »

Interesting, that was new to me. Good to know.


...Well, that got me curious and I just checked the "patrol" order. I seems to do exactly what I wanted, sending two light ships/wings to capture an objective and then protecting it. I'm somewhat baffled.
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GUNINANRUNIN

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 10:32:32 AM »

Problem solved.
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icepick37

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 11:02:20 AM »

All's well that ends well, haha.

Glad I could help?  I think I helped...
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ClosetGoth

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2012, 07:27:04 PM »

I say this is not a closed case! The "raid" command would be very useful, because I don't want to waste a million CP assigning my ships exactly where they are supposed to go, and I don't want it to be either one ship or all of them going to the point. The only time assault is appropriate is when there are enough points that it is fine to split the forces between them.

Icepick, it is just not convenient enough to force more than one ship to cap a point. Besides, then I have a talon wing and another random ship going there, instead of two tougher wings or a single tougher ship. I would like raid to prioritize slightly stronger ships, rather than sending a swarm of bees (talons everywhere)
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Thaago

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 08:45:41 PM »

Interesting, that was new to me. Good to know.


...Well, that got me curious and I just checked the "patrol" order. I seems to do exactly what I wanted, sending two light ships/wings to capture an objective and then protecting it. I'm somewhat baffled.

Huh - I was playing around with the patrol order and it doesn't do this for me. For me it sends all of my light ships to that point, like a defend for fighters. They will still go to higher priority commands like capture and escort, but its not what you suggested in the OP.
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Gothars

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2012, 03:19:47 AM »

@ icepick37: Yeah, you helped. Since I cant give you a cookies over the internet for you help, you have to bake them yourself and think of me thanking you ;)

Spoiler


Ingredients

1 cup butter, softened
1 cup white sugar
1 cup packed brown sugar
2 eggs
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
3 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon baking soda
2 teaspoons hot water
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 cups semisweet chocolate chips
1 cup chopped walnuts
Directions

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C).
Cream together the butter, white sugar, and brown sugar until smooth. Beat in the eggs one at a time, then stir in the vanilla. Dissolve baking soda in hot water. Add to batter along with salt. Stir in flour, chocolate chips, and nuts. Drop by large spoonfuls onto ungreased pans.
Bake for about 10 minutes in the preheated oven, or until edges are nicely browned.
[close]



Huh - I was playing around with the patrol order and it doesn't do this for me. For me it sends all of my light ships to that point, like a defend for fighters. They will still go to higher priority commands like capture and escort, but its not what you suggested in the OP.

All? Strange. I tested it some more. It seems to distinguish between weak and strong fighters. One Xyphos wing seems to be sufficient for a patrol, but if Wasps (or possible any weak fighter) are involved it takes up to 3 ships/wings. Most ships/wings are sufficient in a pair (even Tempest or Hyperion need 2, bug?). Until I tested the Hyperion I thought it might be determined by fleet points, but now I have no clue.

Contrary to what the word "patrol" implies, ships with that order sit motionless on their target and only move when an enemy comes near, but never further then one (minor) grid square in each direction.
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Wyvern

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2012, 10:09:23 AM »

I, too, would like some alternative to "capture"; it wasn't uncommon for me to make a fleet where the smallest fastest ships are Medusas.  That used to work fine.  Now, with destroyers ignoring capture objectives, it doesn't.

Then again, what I'd really like is a "capture & intercept" objective - send one or two ships to capture the node, and, if any enemy approaches it, redirect ships to defend immediately (rather than waiting for the node to be lost before assigning something to recapture).
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bluntfang

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Re: New midline capture order
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2012, 01:40:04 PM »

You assign a point for capture, then click on the ship you want to assign and choose "Assign Task..."  Then you click on the capture point. You can do as many ships as you want. The auto-assigned ship will be unassigned after the first, though. So it'll be 1cp plus another cp for each ship assigned this way.

Ah, but it wastes the first command point, because when you assign the second ship it will unassign the first, requiring a third CP to do the job, a ridiculous amount of FP.

If you only have a couple of ships that might capture (such as a fighter wing and a destroyer) your best bet is to first assign the destroyer a light escort (sending the fighter wing to it) and then giving a capture command (sending two ships with two points).
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 04:04:03 PM by bluntfang »
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