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Author Topic: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]  (Read 2210768 times)

AxleMC131

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6600 on: March 06, 2017, 12:36:51 PM »

Additionally once you get one ship you are happy with, you can kitbash from it too and ensure your sprites are consistent.

That's a good thought...
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Tartiflette

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6601 on: March 06, 2017, 02:25:03 PM »

While I wouldn't advise to do that when you aren't comfortable with spriting yet (because it's not easy to pull off), I started ORA by creating the biggest capital ship first. It too several days to get it right. But then, I've been able to cut it down and kitbash all the other ships from it in two to three hours each. That was a properly MASSIVE gain of time overall! In contrast I used the opposite direction when I redid all Scy's sprites last year it took me months to finish all sprites (although they were a fair bit more complex). While that only work for factions of very similar ships, it gives you an idea of the time you can save by planning ahead and starting from something existing when making a ship.
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AxleMC131

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6602 on: March 06, 2017, 02:30:36 PM »

That's a really good thought actually. My problem is that my theme is usually set by starting with a small ship and building up rather than cutting down, which might not be the best method. In all honesty I'm often scared to create sprites bigger than a destroyer or light cruiser because I always feel overwhelmed by the amount of detail that gets put into that scale of ship in the stock game and other mods, and I'm always worried that I'll spend heaps of time working on something that ends up looking like trash. Starting small feels... Safer, I suppose.

I'm not a big risk taker. XD
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Tartiflette

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6603 on: March 06, 2017, 03:10:40 PM »

As I said, I wouldn't advise to go from top to bottom for someone starting out. But you can do that from any other size above fighters. Make a good destroyer, use it to make the others ones and the frigates, then you should have a good handling on your own faction visual style. After that you can work your way up with cruisers and above.
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AxleMC131

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6604 on: March 06, 2017, 03:55:13 PM »

Alright, I might think about that more seriously, thanks. :) As it is this morning I went and made a second "steampunk" frigate based on the one I posted yesterday in the discussion thread. I'm starting to appreciate the idea of twisting an existing sprite into a new design from the same starting point, ie. Kitbashing my own work.

Spoiler
Still need to do some more work, but it's a start. I'm liking the broadside guns as you can see.

     

[close]
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 03:58:05 PM by AxleMC131 »
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AxleMC131

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6605 on: March 07, 2017, 12:27:22 AM »

Make a good destroyer, use it to make the others ones and the frigates, then you should have a good handling on your own faction visual style. After that you can work your way up with cruisers and above.

Well... I've made a destroyer.  :D Aside from the two frigates I have (now modified to be more detailed and different), this actually looks really good as a mid-sized baseline.

Spoiler

The sprite itself. I'm loving those lights, aren't you? They really bring out some of the depth I always seem to need.



A little of the vessel set up in-game. Before balancing, I roughly based the stats on those of the Enforcer.



And, of course, in combat. Gotta love the broadsides. Close-up on the action with a Hammerhead (D) for a sense of scale.



(For those who are interested, I'm creating these ships gameplay-wise as slow, armoured tanks, with a lot of big guns, almost entirely ballistic. The firepower is balanced by being trained mostly to the broadsides, demanding some tricky manoeuvres to get on target.)

[close]

Incidentally, things are starting to look a little Battlefleet Gothic or whatever that game is, which was not my intention, but I'm going to just pass straight over the similarity and truck on. From experience, ignorance is the best way to stop myself from subconsciously copying an existing style.
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whatdoesthisbuttondo

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6606 on: March 07, 2017, 07:42:16 AM »

@AxleMC131:

That does look surprisingly good in-game, wouldn't have guessed that the whole steampunk idea would work all that well, but it does
with turrets mounted and that engine glow.

(I'd probably go with low-tech engines, since they give more of a smoke trail, possibly even custom engines that give even more smoke,
since those spaceships would have to be steam-powered  ;D)

One thing that does look out of place in that in-game shot is those kinda pinkish-white greeblings though, those could be a little toned
down, with a more grime-metallic look to them.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6607 on: March 07, 2017, 01:33:37 PM »

Make a good destroyer, use it to make the others ones and the frigates, then you should have a good handling on your own faction visual style. After that you can work your way up with cruisers and above.

Well... I've made a destroyer.  :D Aside from the two frigates I have (now modified to be more detailed and different), this actually looks really good as a mid-sized baseline.

Spoiler

The sprite itself. I'm loving those lights, aren't you? They really bring out some of the depth I always seem to need.



A little of the vessel set up in-game. Before balancing, I roughly based the stats on those of the Enforcer.



And, of course, in combat. Gotta love the broadsides. Close-up on the action with a Hammerhead (D) for a sense of scale.



(For those who are interested, I'm creating these ships gameplay-wise as slow, armoured tanks, with a lot of big guns, almost entirely ballistic. The firepower is balanced by being trained mostly to the broadsides, demanding some tricky manoeuvres to get on target.)

[close]

Incidentally, things are starting to look a little Battlefleet Gothic or whatever that game is, which was not my intention, but I'm going to just pass straight over the similarity and truck on. From experience, ignorance is the best way to stop myself from subconsciously copying an existing style.
Do not use the enforcer as a (sole) balance point as it is considered one of the most OP ships in vanilla
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AxleMC131

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6608 on: March 07, 2017, 01:59:46 PM »

(I'd probably go with low-tech engines, since they give more of a smoke trail, possibly even custom engines that give even more smoke,
since those spaceships would have to be steam-powered  ;D)

One thing that does look out of place in that in-game shot is those kinda pinkish-white greeblings though, those could be a little toned
down, with a more grime-metallic look to them.

Aye, the engines are currently on the "LOW_TECH" setting - they might appear MIDLINE because of the bright silvery spots at the back of the engine pods. A custom contrail isn't a bad idea though - I've looked through the code, and that's something that just appears in a config file as a bunch of presets. I'll have a crack.

As for the greebles, I kinda fell in using them as some kind of vent or object for detailing purposes, but maybe on the larger vessels they seem a little like a beehive. I'll see what I can do to clean them up.

BTW: Yes, Steampunk was the inspiration, but the ships aren't really steampunk by themselves. More just based on traditional naval vessels from our current time and before, with a few more rivets and some red paint. Who can say though? I only have three ships so far. XD


Before balancing, I roughly based the stats on those of the Enforcer.
Do not use the enforcer as a (sole) balance point as it is considered one of the most OP ships in vanilla

 :o It is??? I genuinely didn't know this. Guess that's what I get for never having flown it...  What makes it so OP?
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6609 on: March 07, 2017, 02:07:55 PM »

Mostly the number and type of slots. 5x Med Ballistic + 4x Small Missile is horrendously potent; you can fit nearly all of the strongest weapons in the game on an Enforcer, in combination. Flak, Maulers, HVDs, Harpoons, Reapers... even with weaker weapons, an Enforcer is really powerful. Don't judge them by the simulator variants.
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whatdoesthisbuttondo

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6610 on: March 07, 2017, 02:09:07 PM »

As for the greebles, I kinda fell in using them as some kind of vent or object for detailing purposes, but maybe on the larger vessels they seem a little like a beehive. I'll see what I can do to clean them up.

I'd say the transport the meaning quite well, just the color is a little too aggressive/dominant, would probably work a lot better if they blended with the base hull a little more.
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AxleMC131

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6611 on: March 07, 2017, 02:32:55 PM »

Mostly the number and type of slots. 5x Med Ballistic + 4x Small Missile is horrendously potent; you can fit nearly all of the strongest weapons in the game on an Enforcer, in combination. Flak, Maulers, HVDs, Harpoons, Reapers... even with weaker weapons, an Enforcer is really powerful. Don't judge them by the simulator variants.

Good thought. I've always been put off it - believe it or not - by the lack of small ballistic mounts for "secondaries". XD That's just my weird way of looking at things. I guess now I think about it, with five (FIVE?) medium ballistic turrets, who needs small mounts for secondaries?


I'd say the [greebles] transport the meaning quite well, just the color is a little too aggressive/dominant, would probably work a lot better if they blended with the base hull a little more.

Hmm, good point. Looking back at that Destroyer-sized ship especially, while the top hull has several different colours (shades?) across its length, the circle things are all silver with a dark inner. I'll see what it's like with the greebles-on-darker-areas darkened further themselves.
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MShadowy

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6612 on: March 08, 2017, 09:53:10 AM »

Alrighty, starting to get there I think:

Spoiler
[close]
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whatdoesthisbuttondo

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6613 on: March 08, 2017, 03:21:46 PM »

@MShadowy:

Like it a lot (in fact just recently played your mod the first time, really digging the style), what strikes me as
odd though is the right-side front, that rocket nosecone kinda thing, doesn't fit well in the overall organic
style imho.

Somewhat feel the same about the front connection between the two nosetips, would probably fit a lot better
if that were more organic and less of a straight line.
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David

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Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« Reply #6614 on: March 08, 2017, 04:34:34 PM »

Alrighty, starting to get there I think:

Really cool design and rendering. I think use of colour is holding it back -- not the bold colour choices, that's awesome and distinctive and I'm a big fan, but rather how those colours are applied across a range of shading.

Take the darks in the image; they almost look like they have a red fog covering them. The shadows are almost the same hue and saturation as the highlights, the only real difference is luminosity (and the luminosity range is a bit conservative). This makes the rendering look more flat than it should and makes the various sections of the ship look disconnected.

To show what I mean, I did a subtle adjustment and compared various qualities of the colour ramps:

Spoiler

[close]

So I adjusted the hue range there to be cooler, less saturated, and darker in the darks. The highlights are a little brighter, too, and there was a paltry and token attempt to adjust the other colours. This is just to show what a subtle change does; I think you could push it a lot further.

One way to think of this is given that the colour of light affects what colour an object appears to be, the entire ship should appear as though it's in the same lighting condition as the rest of the ship. In most photographs we're used to seeing, in very rough terms shadows are a little bluer, highlights a bit.. well, washed out sometimes, but that depends on the material and environment. Anyway, similar rules can apply to the ship to make it look more unified -- bluer shadows that tint (but don't dominate) all of the dark parts, regardless of colour, and maybe the highlights get washed out a bit and shifted toward some overall mood-colour (in base ships, blueish for high-tech, sepia for mid-tech, rust for low-tech. Or thereabouts.)

Or the shadows can be warmer than highlights; what matters is that there is a consistent shift in hue, saturation, AND luminosity. Making that shift go toward a colour complementary to the most commonly used colours in a design just makes that contrast stand out more strongly.
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