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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Solution for Save Scumming  (Read 15053 times)

BillyRueben

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2012, 12:26:47 PM »

Honestly the problem with these 'hardcore' modes is that you can't be risky, you have to play safe not to lose everything.
Yes, but the problem with non-hardcore modes is that you never risk anything.

good to have options either way
Yep. As long as I have the option to play with an auto save I'll feel better.
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icepick37

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2012, 01:04:04 PM »

I think there's a middle ground somewhere, just not sure how to make it work.

Maybe dropping quicksave in favor of a method that is not arbitrarily restricted, but that is inherently risky on it's own. Like only being able to save at stations or whatever.
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PCCL

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2012, 01:18:50 PM »

alex already said people can probably play the mode they want either way with an optional save-on-exit mode...

I think looking for a middle ground is moot at this point
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Reshy

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2012, 01:34:28 PM »

Honestly the problem with these 'hardcore' modes is that you can't be risky, you have to play safe not to lose everything.
Yes, but the problem with non-hardcore modes is that you never risk anything.

good to have options either way
Yep. As long as I have the option to play with an auto save I'll feel better.


You take a lot more risks, you just can mulligan if it goes horribly horribly wrong.  If you're on a hardcore fleet you'd avoid any fights larger than yourself due to the high chance of losing at least a good portion of your fleet if not losing everything. 



Honestly I don't see the point in putting in arbitrary restrictions into the game.  Heck, a lot of crazy stuff only gets done because the player doesn't lose a persistent fleet (Like taking the two hyperions against a system defense fleet).  With no mulligans in terms of gameplay most battles will just end up as being who started with the biggest boots and not trying to play tactically or trying to be 'clever' by winning with a small fleet because you only ever get one chance without having to start from scratch.
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BillyRueben

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2012, 01:45:45 PM »

You take a lot more risks, you just can mulligan if it goes horribly horribly wrong.
That's my point. It isn't a risk if you can just undo it if you get a bad result.

This argument isn't going to lead to anything fruitful. I'm done. As long as I get the option to have autosaving in the campaign I'm happy.
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PCCL

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2012, 01:48:01 PM »

both can be happy, alex is adding options guys....
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icepick37

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2012, 01:50:05 PM »

The point is that this is a mechanic that greatly affects how the vanilla will play. It's important. And it's obviously very important to a lot of people. Finding the right balance between all-in and all-out will make it the most fun.

Options is all well and good, but why not add a third option that makes the most sense for the most people?
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Reshy

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2012, 02:48:12 PM »

I doubt in the long run it will make a difference.  Personally this is one of those times where I don't think the developer should listen to the community.
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icepick37

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2012, 02:50:43 PM »

Haha, I kind of agree on that one.  :)
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Mattk50

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2012, 02:52:12 PM »

I think most of the issue comes from the whole idea that a single fight gone sour basically sets you back to the beginning of the game if you aren't past a certain point. I think this is due to the incomplete state of the campaign.
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PCCL

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2012, 03:03:00 PM »

agreed...

in late game X3 losing your fully armed M2 in fleet action is more a minor annoyance than anything else, I think that would be closer to the case Soontm
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Gabriel_Braun

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Re: Solution for Save Scumming
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2012, 05:37:09 AM »

like mount and blade

IMHO this is the best way to approach the issue!
For anyone who has been living underground on Corvus 1, in M&B the saving option is selected at character creation, being either;
'Standard' saving where the player can scum as much as they like or
'Realistic' mode on the other hand confers no bonuses when selected and performs an autosave action whenever an event occurs such as entering a settlement, engaging in battle or setting up camp.

The save setting of the character generally dictates the style of play where the 'No quitting without saving' mechanism encourages a more cautious outlook but at the same time makes decisions much more meaningful:  "Should I attack that castle's garrison with the forces I have before the lord returns with his main host?"  Also it is worth mentioning that SF has a simulation mode that (I imagine) will be expanded in future updates to enable testing of whole fleets where there is no analogue to this in Mount and Blade.

I have played through more games of M&B (both modded and vanilla) than I can remember and each time I begin again I always pause to consider what mood I want to set for that particular start.

(It is worth mentioning though that M&B DOES have a facility to export/import your player character at any time, detailing all skills/stats they have where the actual saved game relates to the state of the map such as troop numbers, items and territories.   It would be great if Starfarer could incorporate a similar export feature when the character development features are implemented to give players a choice of starting fresh and facing the early-game character development or importing a previously exported character.   It would be prudent though to omit the exportation of personal cash as part of the character file as is done with M&B and just stick to the character data alone to avoid exploitation of the feature?)

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