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News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Poll

What would you like to see in Blackrock?

More ships
- 755 (23.7%)
More weapons
- 481 (15.1%)
More campaign features
- 478 (15%)
Space monsters
- 705 (22.1%)
More lore
- 207 (6.5%)
More music
- 131 (4.1%)
More portraits
- 157 (4.9%)
Subfactions
- 277 (8.7%)

Total Members Voted: 1425


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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards  (Read 1790723 times)

Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2955 on: September 22, 2020, 06:13:01 PM »

I bet you anything it's the weapon arc - most vanilla fighter weapons are fixed or have extremely small (5º) arcs - whereas most Blackrock fighters have 20º-30º weapon mounts. That means they can make a lot more marginal shots, and coupled with the burst-fire, higher projectile speed, and greater range, I could see that easily translating to a much higher average hit rate.

Now that BRDY includes a single-barrel Shredder, you can just swap it out in the files and see if halved firepower fixes anything.
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SaberCherry

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2956 on: September 22, 2020, 06:17:44 PM »

I bet you anything it's the weapon arc - most vanilla fighter weapons are fixed or have extremely small (5º) arcs - whereas most Blackrock fighters have 20º-30º weapon mounts. That means they can make a lot more marginal shots, and coupled with the burst-fire, higher projectile speed, and greater range, I could see that easily translating to a much higher average hit rate.

Now that BRDY includes a single-barrel Shredder, you can just swap it out in the files and see if halved firepower fixes anything.
Oh, good suggestion, I'll try that and see if it changes the effectiveness.  I have not watched them closely in the simulator to see what's going on, but subjectively, in battle, it certainly seems like they are firing more often. 
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SaberCherry

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2957 on: September 30, 2020, 04:44:39 PM »

I bet you anything it's the weapon arc - most vanilla fighter weapons are fixed or have extremely small (5º) arcs - whereas most Blackrock fighters have 20º-30º weapon mounts. That means they can make a lot more marginal shots, and coupled with the burst-fire, higher projectile speed, and greater range, I could see that easily translating to a much higher average hit rate.

Now that BRDY includes a single-barrel Shredder, you can just swap it out in the files and see if halved firepower fixes anything.
That was indeed a very valuable post.  It was not immediately clear how to swap out one Shredder for the other because it used an alphanumeric code for the weapon - I probably could have looked it up, but instead, I changed the default 51.3 degree arc to 5.13 degrees.  That partially solved the problem.  Not totally - it's now kind of middle-of-the-pack, or maybe in the bottom 3rd, when competing with 8-12 OP manned fighters.  Still, a big improvement.  Next I'll try switching it to the Light Shredder as well.

I think fighters are very sensitive to projectile speed, though, because it is on the same order as fighter speed, and relative to the fighters' velocity rather than absolute, but it doesn't seem like the "should I fire now" calculations are done accordingly.  This is especially obvious for Warthogs armed with Light Mortars, which can't hit anything because it fires them while flying backwards and they simply don't make it to the target.  So high velocity weapons might make fighters much more deadly for purely AI reasons.  Sparks, with a sustained DPS of 64, don't seem particularly amazing on paper but they don't miss.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 05:01:35 PM by SaberCherry »
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2958 on: October 01, 2020, 11:24:39 AM »

Good posts, I think you're right about the Dipteron wing. 0 OP cost fighters need to be kind of trash to justify the fact you can just slap them on without thinking about it. I'll look it over and make adjustments to bring it in line. Might be the best call to make a reduced arc and single-barrel shredder as it will keep them reliable but greatly weaken their ship killing potential, I like keeping them OP free (or maybe bump to 1 OP cost, depending)

I would also think the large amount of raw, but often inconsequential frag damage inflates the numbers in the combat analytics mod a bit, but on the other hand I haven't used that mod much. But if you are using it as the main way to measure performance, I figured it was worth mentioning

I was playing with this and Nexerlin and noticed that Blackrock ship prices are not affected by D-mods.  Other ship prices are, though.

Bizarre, couldn't reproduce this one so I must have fixed it at some point
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Modo44

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2959 on: October 01, 2020, 10:25:09 PM »

Free "trash" drones" also a) allow for easy point defence saturation so your carriers can bring 100% Vespas, and 2) allow for way stronger builds on ships with 1-2 wing slots by simply saving OP while still bringing something. Free weapons of any kind tend to break balance.
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2960 on: October 02, 2020, 01:03:03 PM »

I think the arc is fine, but bumping up the cost to 1 OP is a good idea because it solves the main issue of 0 OP fighters; one wing and many wings having the same cost. This way, with the single Shredder it's still useful to have one wing, and the cost scales with effectiveness. Lower DPS is offset by a higher hit rate and greater range... Should hit the sweet spot.
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SaberCherry

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2961 on: October 02, 2020, 09:54:11 PM »

I would also think the large amount of raw, but often inconsequential frag damage inflates the numbers in the combat analytics mod a bit, but on the other hand I haven't used that mod much. But if you are using it as the main way to measure performance, I figured it was worth mentioning
The analytics mod takes type into account (or rather, it probably ignores type and just intercepts the numbers); you can see this because for example a single Hammer Torpedo hit will do 750 shield damage, but much more ship damage (it does not distinguish between armor and hull when tracking ship damage).  It's a really useful mod for evaluating performance; I just wish it could track the simulator, too.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2962 on: October 03, 2020, 12:23:01 PM »

The analytics mod takes type into account (or rather, it probably ignores type and just intercepts the numbers); you can see this because for example a single Hammer Torpedo hit will do 750 shield damage, but much more ship damage (it does not distinguish between armor and hull when tracking ship damage).  It's a really useful mod for evaluating performance; I just wish it could track the simulator, too.
More like it constantly feeds you mis- and dis-information...

It cannot detect EMP arcs, AOE damage, scripted damage (even vanilla scripted damage), scripted submunitions, and does not handles beams against shields very well. The amounts of things it will not analyze correctly is simply staggering even just with vanilla, and even more so adding in mods.

Avanitia

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2963 on: October 03, 2020, 01:44:44 PM »

Some weapons are bugged entirely as well.
Spoiler
[close]

As you can see here Plasma Cannon shows as if it dealt 0 damage, even though ship used it in battle to kill multiple enemy ships.
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You haven't played Starsector unless your storage has one thousand Vulcans in it.

IonDragonX

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2964 on: November 07, 2020, 11:06:19 AM »

@Cycerin
I love the mod ever since I saw it on WadeStar's youtube promo.

Question: is it possible to start a campaign & have the Blackrock homeworld in a random location? Right now its to the SE of core but could it be NE, NW or SW? It would make new campaigns less predictable.
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Sedrido

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2965 on: December 04, 2020, 10:22:27 PM »

honestly the imaginos is WAY to frail for 12 dp  horrible flux armor and hull is not a good combination no matter how op its systems are as it is now it just gets bodied either make it able to take a couple hits so it can back off for another run or buff its flux efficency massivley so it can run around like a little gremlin and shoot its gun for more than a second or perhaps a little of both other than that its an amazing mod imo  :)
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Stealth

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2966 on: December 29, 2020, 02:18:09 PM »

Is there a list of all ships available?
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ProfessionalHuman

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2967 on: March 30, 2021, 02:58:31 PM »

Hello Cycerin! Thanks for all your hard work on this mod! I almost can't play without it. Is there any plans to update it for current version of the game (0.95a)?
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an_undesirable

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2968 on: March 30, 2021, 04:47:34 PM »

Hello Cycerin! Thanks for all your hard work on this mod! I almost can't play without it. Is there any plans to update it for current version of the game (0.95a)?

Echoing this, I really enjoy playing with Blackrock and all the cool ships and weapons, hoping to see it in 0.95a!
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Cyan Leader

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2969 on: March 30, 2021, 07:04:50 PM »

Yup, Blackrock is by far the best faction mod in my opinion. I would really appreciate if you could take the time to update it for us, please!
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