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[Dri]

F5, oops, battle didn't go too well better hit F9. This is very bad.

Please, when the full campaign is implemented save scumming must be killed. It'll ruin everything:

1) Who cares about money when you only need to buy things once because you'll never lose them?
2) Whats the point of being able to manufacture ships when you never lose them?
3) Who cares if you get chased down by an enemy fleet you're not ready to face? Just reload and dodge in advance.
4) Enemy fleet surprise attacked one of your stations? Just load an older save and get a fleet there to intercept them this time.
5) Undertaking a dangerous, skill-based mission? Just F5 before you start and keep F9ing until you execute it perfectly.

The above are only a few nasty, game ruining issues if save scumming is allowed to exist. I very much hope Alex will implement a 'save constantly as you play' save style. Or, at the very least add a 'hardcore' new game option that will have constant saving with no reloading.

[armoredcookie]

The thing is, save-scumming is a decision for the player. You could do it if you wanted to, and quite a few people do, but you don't have to. All it requires is not pressing a button every time you engage a fleet.

It's as simple as that.

[Ravelair]

If you can't stop yourself from cheating then that's your problem. You are not forced to abuse the save system. So simply don't do it...

[Valiant19]

I'm pretty sure I've seen this topic float around the forums before this one, and doubtless there will be more to follow.

In the end, as the people above me have said, it's the player's choice and not something that the dev should focus specifically.  If you hate save-scumming, then don't do it.  No one's holding a gun to your head and telling you to reload your file if you lose most of your fleet, just because the feature exists.

[PCCL]

well... as is you can only save in one slot... I think that's a lot less forgiving as far as grand strategy goes...

1) Who cares about money when you only need to buy things once because you'll never lose them?
2) Whats the point of being able to manufacture ships when you never lose them?
You can lose them, see below

3) Who cares if you get chased down by an enemy fleet you're not ready to face? Just reload and dodge in advance.
there's no reason to take them on... unless they're targeting one of your assets (a convoy or maybe a station). Usually smaller fleets are faster anyway

4) Enemy fleet surprise attacked one of your stations? Just load an older save and get a fleet there to intercept them this time.
depends on when is your last save, save too early and you lose too much progress when you die, save too late and you won't be able to respond in time.

5) Undertaking a dangerous, skill-based mission? Just F5 before you start and keep F9ing until you execute it perfectly.
Only if you can do the battle in one shot (which for most checkpoint based systems are the same anyway

Maybe the X style saving where you can only save at stations unless you have an item that costs credits?

[Vind]

Just imagine you must immediately stop playing and you are not at station - leaving the game on pause not always an option. The decision to save or not to save is for players to take. Of course game will be easy then you are reloading after each defeat and replay perfectly. Special "Hard" mode with autosave on stations only will be useful for hardcore players. Maybe give some exp bonus if you play with hard mode too? Like in Fallout tactics - you cant save on mission but got 3x amount of  XP and can save only on base.

[naufrago]

Someone posted this in the Suggestions forum a few months ago. The consensus was that this was a bad idea, and if anything it should be consigned to a hardcore option.

EDIT: Found it- http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3458.0
And apparently I made up the Hardcore option thing. Must've been thinking of another similar suggestion thread I read.

[Hypilein]

This topic has already been discussed to death.

I Think the only Solution that is really ok for everybody is to Add a Toggle in the Options wether Saving is only Possible at Stations (possibly only at Friendly Stations). But there should be an "easy mode" left for all the People who like trying in Engagements that they are likely to fail, just to see what happens. And that is of course just one reason, there are probably a lot more.

[BillyRueben]

Maybe give some exp bonus if you play with hard mode too? Like in Fallout tactics - you cant save on mission but got 3x amount of  XP and can save only on base.

I actually like that idea quite a bit.

[Thaago]

I would enjoy a 'save after every event' style system myself.

I agree that it is the choice of the player whether to do this or not... but that doesn't mean it makes good gameplay. Sometimes forcing the player to do something harder, or to have real consequences, makes for a better game.

[naufrago]

I would enjoy a 'save after every event' style system myself.

I agree that it is the choice of the player whether to do this or not... but that doesn't mean it makes good gameplay. Sometimes forcing the player to do something harder, or to have real consequences, makes for a better game.

If I wanted real consequences, I wouldn't be playing games. =p

[Mirage]

Why would you really want this except as a way to avoid admitting no self control?

Losing horrendously and being forced to claw your way back is, to me and I'm sure quite a few other people, part of the appeal of some games. Losing an entire army in Total War, or a fully stocked carrier in X3, or a multi-billion isk Paladin in Eve, all hard losses, yet all bring a new level of challenge to recover from.

If that is what you are looking for, then you just have to play that way. Removing everyone's ability to save as needed when needed just because some people lack the self control not to "abuse" the system, pretty selfish IMO.

[frag971]

i think it should be removed, but available in Dev-mode, much like free credits, Esc'ing to cancel fights, etc...

So if someone REALY wants to cheat they have the option to easily do so, otherwise stick to the challenge.

[icepick37]

I'm pretty sure we'll see a hard mode without it.

It's no different from save features or checkpoints in any other game. It's just less cumbersome. It's useful for those of us who like it (whether we abuse it or not).

[xenoargh]

Some of us have lives, y'know?

I don't want to have my time playing a video game wasted because my kid's asking me a question about his homework and my fleet auto-berserked to destruction or I got a call or an email I need to answer or any of the other million-and-one distractions that happens when you're not just some person by yourself or a kid living at home.

I don't mind a hardcore mode with perma-death and saves only at Stations, automatically, for people who have nothing else to do and want boasting rights, that's fine, but I'd really hate playing a game like this if I personally couldn't go back and redo things.  Especially if, as the Campaign gets developed, there are plot trees and the like, and choices you can't un-make.  At that point, me personally, I expect to be able to save my character and go back and make different choices later if I want to explore the game.

It's annoying enough realizing that I haven't saved for an hour and that I have to rebuild that 90K and hope that the battleship I wanted and the weapons I need to complete the build I want is in stock, again.

In short, it's fine how it is, and while it'd be improved by multiple saves, auto-save as an option and a hardcore mode for people with lots of free time, these are just minor things.  But save-scumming is basically a problem for people who want to play hardcore but can't make themselves do it.