Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: Best and worst of your command  (Read 20930 times)

Dark.Revenant

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2806
    • View Profile
    • Sc2Mafia
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2011, 03:48:33 AM »

Worst: I'm in a completely full-health Conquest flying broadside to the enemy fleet at the front of my flotilla.  I was just overloaded from getting my attention pulled to something else while a few projectiles hit the shield.  I maneuver out of the range of the enemy capital ships for a bit.  I realize my mouse is pointing to the bottom of the screen, so I scroll to the top... revealing a cluster of about 12 bombers, all of which spit out their volley of rockets into a perfect broadside of my overloaded, pristine Conquest.

Half of a second later, Commander Revenant was killed in action aboard a glowing chunk of capital-class wreckage.  That bomber group completely wrecked my *** in a single pass... Wow.


Best: Well, I beat all the missions.  Easy is 90+%, Medium is 70+%, Hard is 50+%, and Impossible is 30+%.  Aside from that, I pause the game very, very often to manage the battle.  My own ship-flying abilities lean very heavily toward smaller, agile craft with a lot of punch because of the EV Nova and Freespace influence -- the Bis'Mar mission I managed an 83% on simply because I could singlehandedly demolish anything the enemy didn't suicide into my fleet.  Crushing the Onslaught is laughably easy with that corvette, though frigate-sized craft pose a challenge because of the widely-spaced, short-range, low-ROF antimatter blasters that aren't suited for medium-sized craft (the PD beams take care of fighters and missiles ridiculously well, though).  The Bis'Mar even has a gigantic unshielded half in the back to exploit.  A few passes with my antimatter blasters and torpedoes turned the whole thing into a pile of slag, and I had virtually no armor damage.


Hornet's Nest wasn't that bad to clear (the Apogee is amazing), but Last Hurrah was brutal.  The strategy I ended up winning with was capturing a few points on the right with fighters to call in my ships, then form a gigantic ball of ships toward the south while I go alone to take the left points and crush any straggling frigates.  At that point, I would have to sprint back to the south where, by now, both fleets have nearly annihilated each other, leaving a completely unharmed me to assist my last surviving ships in taking out the remaining battlecruisers and frigates.

Dire Straits was clearable enough.  I got away with most of my stuff, but lost a smaller transport, a larger transport, and the huge elite transport, plus several fighter wings and a couple support craft.  The rest escaped.  My strategy was to confuse the enemy into throwing all their stuff at one random transport + some guards way off on one side of the map while my other ships traveled largely uncontested down the middle and left lanes.  Still, fighting off most of the straggling enemy ships singlehandedly took its toll on the Hammerhead, leaving me with only 700 hull by the end.  Luckily, the battleships wasted their time chasing down the 15-cost transport for the better part of the entire game, meaning that I never had to engage those things.
Logged

InfinitySquared

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2011, 06:47:41 AM »

Well, the worst of my command was charging straight into the enemy with an Apogee. I would have survived had I not called off the rest of my fleet to secondary targets.
Logged

Avan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
  • Pioneer of Starfarer Modding
    • View Profile
    • DevDB forums
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2011, 07:56:04 AM »

3 bomber wings completely killed a conquest? :o Should that really be happening?

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 24125
    • View Profile
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2011, 08:48:27 AM »

12 bombers is more like 4 wings, but at any rate, yes, I think it absolutely should. A capital ship shouldn't be able to survive a perfectly lined up bombing run from multiple bomber wings while overloaded. It's a case of a perfectly executed attack, by ships designed to be effective specfically vs their target, with said target being in a bad postion (oveloaded and not moving laterally enough) to begin with. Note that the Conquest is especially vulnerable due to having lower armor and better speed (which it wasn't utilizing to avoid at least part of the damage).

Whether bombers should cost more fleet points is another question... I think it'll take being able to make custom fleets in the campaign layer to really see how that works out.

There should also be UI indicators to alert you to an incoming threat like that. As it stands, it's harder to see a bombing run coming than it should be - I think *that* is the real problem.
Logged

David

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
    • View Profile
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2011, 12:00:40 PM »

3 bomber wings completely killed a conquest? :o Should that really be happening?

Using the WW2 naval combat analogy, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Taranto. I think it's fascinating to (very roughly) base game mechanics on this period where the common wisdom of having tons of huge ships was being overthrown and a whole new dynamic which had to be discovered. If we went for a WW1 naval combat analogy, big battleships might rule all - but I think having a system which allows someone to pull a smart move to destroy a force which is stronger on paper is just great.

(It's why I liked PvP in Ultima Online more than WoW or EQ; A character with mediocre stats had a chance vs a high stat player if they used tactics and ganged up vs. completely overwhelming stat disparities which leave no room for smart play to swing the battle.)

An Onslaught with a couple patrol frigates, an interceptor wing, and some more situational awareness would not even be scratched by some bomber wings! It's all about fleet composition and tactics.
Logged

Avan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
  • Pioneer of Starfarer Modding
    • View Profile
    • DevDB forums
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2011, 12:25:56 PM »

Ok, was just flying around in a conquest, and yeah, I can see that happening now from a balance standpoint, given how thin the armor is O_o *still won with 126 hull HP left :D*

I suppose I'm of the camp that thinks that you should have more weaker bombers which price for price are exactly the same in effect, but it just makes it have a bigger scale X3 (basically an atmospheric change)

Dark.Revenant

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2806
    • View Profile
    • Sc2Mafia
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2011, 01:19:55 PM »

Balance doesn't really work like that.  The problem with lots and lots of fighters is that the PD systems start to lose their balance, probably becoming weaker.  A PD beam can only hit one fighter at a time, after all, and blocking all the little spammed missiles would be painfully difficult.  I feel that the scale is fine as is; if you want a gigantic fleet engagement with lots of fighters, buy lots of fighters.  The current fighter balance reminds me a lot of Freespace, where fighters were actually rather powerful and bombers could really ruin someone's day.

What I'd like to see is a more fleshed out Carrier mechanic.  Simply being a rearming station seems a bit out of place.  What's this going to be like in the metagame?
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 24125
    • View Profile
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2011, 01:35:27 PM »

What I'd like to see is a more fleshed out Carrier mechanic.  Simply being a rearming station seems a bit out of place.  What's this going to be like in the metagame?

Check out this blog entry.

Rough summary - to have fighter wings in a fleet, you need hangar capacity. Most ships add some, but carriers add a lot. So in addition to being a force multiplier for fighters in battles, they also let you field more fighters to begin with.
Logged

Avan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
  • Pioneer of Starfarer Modding
    • View Profile
    • DevDB forums
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2011, 01:40:29 PM »

Well, OC, there are going to be balance ramifications elsewhere - that goes without saying, that could be worked in as well. I know how balance works - I've been doing it across several games for the past... 6(!) years.
Given that there is already a fairly large margin of hits needed per fighter/bomber to take it out, you could probably get away with simply buffing them... And with the other balance modifications required, I think the whole exponential HP curve could probably be put in...

Balance mod project for some time I suppose... (Unless Apokus' ends up like this, which I think it might)

Avan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
  • Pioneer of Starfarer Modding
    • View Profile
    • DevDB forums
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2011, 03:57:36 PM »

I just flew into about 40 pilum missiles I thought were friendlies >.<
I actually managed to survive. Only to be promptly killed by the Onslaughts that fired them whom I was on my way to battle.

Avan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
  • Pioneer of Starfarer Modding
    • View Profile
    • DevDB forums
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2011, 10:41:18 PM »

Beat hornet's nest now with a score of 85%, unscathed, save for some scratches in the paint where some fighters took potshots at me when I overloaded due to too many weapons firing. Going to see if I can do it again, no damage this time.

Blips

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2011, 11:07:36 PM »

Best thing I've done so far was I used the destroyed hulls of enemy ships as cover, allowing me to effectively take the remaining 3 enemy ships on one at a time.
Logged

InfinitySquared

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2011, 11:15:48 AM »

Though it isn't exactly the best of my command strategically or tactically, I had a music player open under Starfarer set to my Favorites playlist. I also have a tendency to make up battle chatter. So my frigates and small craft were fighting to secure the comm relay. They did and I was able to bring in the Apogee and its frigate escorts.
The song that played at that very moment was "Help is On the Way", by Rise Against. And one line was "Help is on the way!"
I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

Tactically, I dodged one of those red torpedoes by angling my ship slightly. Then I strafed behind cover and emerged ready to fire at an enemy Onslaught with my gauss cannons (I made a high-tech artillery variant of the Onslaught and used it). The thing took a full salvo at extreme range and exploded.

Now I wish there was a 'hold position' command in the tac map.
Logged

Avan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
  • Pioneer of Starfarer Modding
    • View Profile
    • DevDB forums
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2011, 08:51:55 PM »

I just killed two condores on the latest version of my impossible mission (after running out of ammo) with my shields. :D (specifically while activating them on top of the condors)

... which gives me inspiration for a new ship......

liq3

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Best and worst of your command
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2011, 05:50:54 PM »

I just managed to beat Dire Straights by DESTROYING THE ENEMY FLEET. I have no idea how I pulled that off. o.O
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3