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Author Topic: Strategic Direction of Starfarer  (Read 16215 times)

Thana

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Re: Strategic Direction of Starfarer
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2011, 06:24:31 PM »

Melnorme-style! I thought that was nicely done in SC2... may have to do something similar here :) For those that haven't played it: in Star Control 2, when you ran out of fuel for the first time, a Melnorme trader ship came along and sold you some in exchange for biometric data. That game was/is so good in so many ways...

Indeed. Star Control II remains the best of its (unfortunately rare! Someone should really get around to repopulating the space exploration adventure genre!) kind.


Right, there would definitely be ways to actively guard against running out. I'm just on the fence about letting you completely strand yourself if you're just learning the ropes.

Assuming you make only FTL jumps/travel consume fuel and assume that in-system travel fuel costs are negligible by comparison (ie. abstracted away) you could have a system where the game keeps track of the closest available friendly port and displays a fuel warning when your fuel reserves are at or near the levels where your current reserves are barely enough to get back. That will make the choice to push on a calculated risk instead of the player just not noticing when they over-extend themselves? (And besides, isn't that the sort of thing underlings are supposed to keep track of and inform the captain/admiral about rather than them having to personally calculate the ship operating distance in real time? "Exec, inform me when we approach the point of no return.")
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hairrorist

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Re: Strategic Direction of Starfarer
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2011, 10:50:19 AM »

Just wanted to say that the fleet/crew management is looking awesome.  You seem to have a much more mature approach to design than many small indie developers who get lost in feature creep and interface hell.  You understand how interface and design is directly related to quality gameplay.  A lot of developers (*COUGH* TARNADAMS) seem to think they are two completely separate facets of a game.
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Alex

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Re: Strategic Direction of Starfarer
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2011, 12:50:43 PM »

Just wanted to say that the fleet/crew management is looking awesome.  You seem to have a much more mature approach to design than many small indie developers who get lost in feature creep and interface hell.  You understand how interface and design is directly related to quality gameplay.  A lot of developers (*COUGH* TARNADAMS) seem to think they are two completely separate facets of a game.

Thanks! I think I'll only feel comfortable saying we've avoided feature creep when the 1.0 version is out :) It's one of those things I worry about all the time.

I think you bring up a really interesting point re: interface and gameplay. I used to feel that you could kind of design mechanics in a vacuum - and then come up with a good UI, given however the mechanics turned out for "good gameplay". In practice, though, that's placing too much a burden on the UI design - well, I'm no expert UI designer, so perhaps it's simply too much of a burden for me. It seems to work much better if mechanics are designed with boring, low-level UI specifics in mind.

In a sense, the interface IS the gameplay... and you're not doing anybody any favors by coming up with mechanics that are hard to create a good UI for. Least of all the person that has to design and implement it.

Then again, say what you will about DF's UI (and I'll agree with you), but it's still an amazing game.
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hairrorist

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Re: Strategic Direction of Starfarer
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2011, 01:24:08 PM »

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.  DF is one of my favorite games... but it manages greatness DESPITE being a complete pain in the ass to actually play.  The game does just about everything possible to *** off a player and actively prevent enjoyment.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 01:25:44 PM by hairrorist »
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Alex

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Re: Strategic Direction of Starfarer
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2011, 01:34:26 PM »

Yes, if DFs UI wasn't actively sadistic, I'd be playing it right now.

So, I guess I'm thankful that it is.
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Durandal4532

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Re: Strategic Direction of Starfarer
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2011, 01:15:16 PM »

What really irks me about Dwarf Fortress is how simple it all is, really.

I don't mean the actual underlying guff, the various simulations are all... well, they're quite simulationy and I mean that takes time.

But the UI doesn't need to do that much! You slap down rooms, dwarfs go in the rooms, you drop some tools/whatever, you designate areas for stuff, you manage relationships a little. I mean sure it grows, but the basics are pretty basic!

The last time I quit forever, I was simultaneously building and assigning bedrooms one. at. a. time. and managing warriors in a half-implemented but massively important for survival system and realized maybe I could just leave well enough alone. I understand not bothering to implement a UI. It's not his wheelhouse, and he likes implementing new and weird simulated behaviour. But I can't stand when I see the idea presented that the ridiculous interface is a sign of the  complex underpinnings. It's a sign of not putting any effort into a UI, nothing else.

I mean for goodness sake, the third party dwarf-manager is a practical necessity, and that's pretty easy to use!
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Alex

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Re: Strategic Direction of Starfarer
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2011, 09:58:34 AM »

Sounds like a series I might like ... to the reading list it goes!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Fleet

Thanks for mentioning it - ended up reading the whole series in the last couple of weeks and thoroughly enjoyed it. Now have to wait until May for the next book to come out :(
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Thana

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Re: Strategic Direction of Starfarer
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2011, 11:13:00 PM »

Thanks for mentioning it - ended up reading the whole series in the last couple of weeks and thoroughly enjoyed it. Now have to wait until May for the next book to come out :(

Nice!

You're welcome, it's indeed a pretty interesting series.
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ollobrains

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Re: Strategic Direction of Starfarer
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2011, 12:54:59 PM »

What really irks me about Dwarf Fortress is how simple it all is, really.

I don't mean the actual underlying guff, the various simulations are all... well, they're quite simulationy and I mean that takes time.

But the UI doesn't need to do that much! You slap down rooms, dwarfs go in the rooms, you drop some tools/whatever, you designate areas for stuff, you manage relationships a little. I mean sure it grows, but the basics are pretty basic!

The last time I quit forever, I was simultaneously building and assigning bedrooms one. at. a. time. and managing warriors in a half-implemented but massively important for survival system and realized maybe I could just leave well enough alone. I understand not bothering to implement a UI. It's not his wheelhouse, and he likes implementing new and weird simulated behaviour. But I can't stand when I see the idea presented that the ridiculous interface is a sign of the  complex underpinnings. It's a sign of not putting any effort into a UI, nothing else.

I mean for goodness sake, the third party dwarf-manager is a practical necessity, and that's pretty easy to use!


Programmers are a strange lot they have strengths and weaknesses remmeber unless its a bigger group doing it like open source if someone has a weakness ie UI in DF its likley to get less attention than the simulation and complexity side of things so he has left it to others to develop the third party dwarf manager elements.

Its a good game and star farer looks similiar
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