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[Psiweapon]

Okay I was very excited about this game, mainly because of David's pix, and because I like most spaceship games. I bought it right away.

Just.

How the hell do you play this??

Capital ships are barely manageable, medium-sized ships explode the second the command module reaches them - and about that, nice trolling with the command module thing! I can't just switch control to them, I'm the goddamn Admiral and I have to get there in person to get things done.

The "easy" mission solved itself, but the nest "medium" mission? frikin' impossible.

To top it all, when the enemy is tired of me, just kamikazes it's fighters right away into me or something.

Please, MOAR easy missions, or selectable difficulty, just *something* so you can learn before being outmaneuvred, bombarded and pewpewpew'ed to hell right away.

I don't think I'm going to play this much before the sandbox mode is available, because I don't really have a clue what to do with the missions.

Tips would be appreciated, though.

(Sorry for the ranting but I was baffled away at the difficulty)

[Alex]

Hi Psiweapon,

Yeah, the game is hard... it's meant to be, though I do agree it's a bit too rough in the early going. I assume you've looked at the manual (stickied) and did the tutorials? Those help in learning what kinds of things to look out for.


As far as tips, I'd say putting stuff on autofire mode is important. So is playing more defensively and dodging stuff instead of absorbing it with shields. The biggest thing is just becoming aware of the dangers, though. Incoming bombers or torpedoes are really important to keep track of and avoid, for example.

The second mission... well, it's got some challenges, but on the bright side, the enemy doesn't have anything that will destroy your ship very quickly, so it's not quite as punishing. I'd also recommend trying "Sinking the Bis'mar" - that's one of the easier missions based mostly on piloting skill. There's not much to worry about there aside from controlling your ship. "Random Battle" is also set up to give the player an advantage, and always starts you off in a high-quality battlecruiser to boot.


As you point out, the difficulty issue will be largely addressed by the sandbox mode where you'll get to pick your own battles. In fact, I think you'll find it addressed in the next version, which will include custom battles - which you can make as easy or difficult as you like.

[Psiweapon]

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I imagine the game is *meant* to be hard... well more like unforgiving.

I hope the rant wasn't much too harsh, I'm playing the game, and I like it. I was frustrated because "this game looks AWESOME but I can't DO JACK *** BECAUSE I SUUUUUCK!!! *nerd rages*"

Yeah, I've looked at the manual, and did the tutorials, but they didn't help much... the tutorials, specially. I mean, they got basic teaching in them that you NEED to know, what is in the tutorial is essential info and it gets the message across, but it feels very... bare bones?

Maybe you should add a couple more of tutorial missions, something in the vein of battle training, or military maneuvers? (sp?)

That's a honest-to-goodness suggestion, I think that extending the tutorial would help total n00bs like me.

Oh, also the tips floating around in the tutorial are instructive and fun


EDIT:

I don't think I'll be playing this anymore until I get my gaming computer repaired.

[Alex]

I hope the rant wasn't much too harsh, I'm playing the game, and I like it. I was frustrated because "this game looks AWESOME but I can't DO JACK *** BECAUSE I SUUUUUCK!!! *nerd rages*"

No worries, I didn't take offense at all - that the game is hard and unforgiving is a fair point, and the learning curve is something we need to address.

Maybe you should add a couple more of tutorial missions, something in the vein of battle training, or military maneuvers? (sp?)

That's a honest-to-goodness suggestion, I think that extending the tutorial would help total n00bs like me.

Not a bad idea at all. The current tutorial really doesn't make you apply what you've learned in a combat environment.

Oh, also the tips floating around in the tutorial are instructive and fun

Oh, hey, someone actually read those!

[Alendor]

ya, some tutorials that ease you into full combat could help alot.  i recall when i first started, it took me a while to get used to managing flux/weapon/shield use.  and would die quite often, and was switching command a half dozen times a battle.  once you get the hang of it those, you are much more survivable

[CommComms]

I think maybe instead of more tutorials a few more easy missions that have to do with flying larger ships, or maybe dealing with enemy bombers, might be a better solution.

[Psiweapon]

The game lags down somewhat in this computer when there are a lot of things on screen, and it makes it much more difficult to control... specially the shooting.

It would be nice if eventually you included the option to turn off some graphics / post effects, for those among us who have not-so-good computers.

[Thana]

I think maybe instead of more tutorials a few more easy missions that have to do with flying larger ships, or maybe dealing with enemy bombers, might be a better solution.

This sounds like a good idea, too.

Of course, the next release is supposed to contain the ability to create custom ship variants and custom battles, so at that point we can create whatever sort of scenarios we wish. I believe that will help a lot with learning the game when you can create your own battles and slowly increase the difficulty and complexity of what you have to deal with.

[Alex]

Hmm, yeah, perhaps label the missions as "training" to make it more clear what's what. Learning about bombers/torpedoes is a big deal. Then again, in a tutorial-type setting, it's easier to call attention to things... can't really count on someone reading the mission description, even it's full of hints, you know?

The game lags down somewhat in this computer when there are a lot of things on screen, and it makes it much more difficult to control... specially the shooting.

It would be nice if eventually you included the option to turn off some graphics / post effects, for those among us who have not-so-good computers.

Long-term, there should be some significant optimization - and if that doesn't help enough, some options to turn things down, too. And in particular, to tune the battle size - limiting the number of ships, while not great, may be preferable to bad fps.

Btw, if you don't mind tweaking a text file, you could try that now - open up data/config/settings.json and then set "battleSize" to 50 or so. It's not something that's been extensively tested and may break some missions (like "Sinking the Bis'mar", where the enemy won't be able to deploy the Onslaught at the start) but may be worth a shot anyway.

[Erebos]

I'd also recommend trying "Sinking the Bis'mar" - that's one of the easier missions based mostly on piloting skill. There's not much to worry about there aside from controlling your ship.

I also recommend you play this mission. The game's difficulty at this stage is partly due to the fact that you are thrown in the deep end, tactically speaking, and it's easy to be overwhelmed. This isn't much of a problem in "Sinking the Bis'Mar", and you can concentrate on learning the combat mechanics such as flux control, missile dodging and so forth. In other missions with larger fleets involved, it often pays to be cautious with your flagship; if you don't pay attention, you can easily be surrounded, and even a capital ship can get taken down quickly in such a situation.

[hairrorist]

The hardest part for me is knowing what ships are in what group.  Is there a way to tell that I'm missing or do you just have to memorize that X type ships are in the Strike Group etc?

[CommComms]

After enough playing you just kinda figure out what ships are in what classification.  Bombers and anything with weapons that hit particularly hard will probably end up in a strike group.

But I'm not sure that's a real barrier to playing.  Try just assigning orders based only on what you want to get done without any regard for what ships are actually available.  I've run through every mission at least a dozen times, and I pay absolutely no real attention to what ships get assigned to what tasks.  If the opposing fleet has some battleships or something I'll hold some bombers in reserve until their onslaught is deployed, then I'll deploy my bombers and order a strike.  But aside from that I just deploy fast frigates/fighters and maybe a carrier to start, then gradually roll out progressively larger ships until the whole fleet is deployed.

[hairrorist]

Meh, it's kind of one of those really easy to fix glaring omissions that present a barrier to newbies but are invisible to old hands.  It was certainly confusing for me for my first 10-20 battles.  I'd really like to be able to assign ships to groups or at the very least know what ships I'm ordering to do what.  Doesn't it kind of defeat the point of loadout customization if you're not paying attention to the individual strengths and weaknesses of your ships and instead playing in broad strategic strokes?

[CommComms]

Not at all.  I mean, currently, there is no loadout customization so what you start with is what you get.  I send out the ships in the order I've learned to like sending them out, setting what orders I want to set as the battle progresses and the game does the rest.  With the recent patch, I have absolutely no idea what the new fighters in Last Hurrah do, but I can send them out with the second wave and if I notice that they kill something particularly fast or do a certain thing then I'll keep it in mind for the future, but aside from that it's totally fine to let the game decide what they do.

When loadout customization is implemented it should be even easier, since all the weapons will have a nice little blurb telling you what they do and how they do it, so you get to decide what role your individual ships fill and how they fill it.  This will allow people who want to learn what every weapon really does, how to use it most efficiently, and how to make the most well-balanced fleet possible to do that, and also let the people who are ok with the defaults customize things however little they want and just focus on flying around while the game sends off the appropriate ships to deal with orders as they're assigned.

[Alex]

The hardest part for me is knowing what ships are in what group.  Is there a way to tell that I'm missing or do you just have to memorize that X type ships are in the Strike Group etc?

Doesn't it kind of defeat the point of loadout customization if you're not paying attention to the individual strengths and weaknesses of your ships and instead playing in broad strategic strokes?

You know, I really want to say it's the kind of thing that will get *easier* with loadout customization (and easier still in the campaign, when you're putting together your fleet from scratch). Why? Because you'll be intimately familiar with your fleet composition. So when you order a carrier group to rally, you won't have to wonder which ships in your fleet are carriers - you'll just know, because you learned that when you acquired them. Your broad orders will also be more meaningful because you'll have a better idea of just how they'll be carried out.


I think the main reason for the steep learning curve is that there's no progression yet, and you start out right in the deep end. Even "Turning the Tables" (the first mission) starts you off with more than what you'd start with in the campaign. It should be much easier to learn things when they're introduced gradually, instead of all at once - and coming in weapons hot!

That said, I'd love to introduce some progression elements in the next build - just not settled entirely on how to do that yet.