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[OrangeLima]

You all talk about high tech ships like they are omni-potent. Has anyone considered that these ships are now so good that they make mid-line inert?

I mean really, a mid-line fleet doesn't stand a chance anymore.

[Tarran]

I don't know about that. The maneuvering jets on the majority of middle-tech fleet makes it very difficult for them to be flanked for very long I'd imagine. And flanking is perhaps the only advantage high tech ships have besides being able to retreat fast. 1v1 middle-tech ships would very likely die, but bunch the middle-tech ships together and I doubt there's going to be many openings for high tech ships. In a fleet vs fleet fight, the middle-tech's ability to arm kinetics and their heavier armor gives them a large edge against the high-tech ships.

Still, I will admit that I too am concerned with the absurd speed of high tech ships and their systems which make them even more faster.

[neonesis]

I don't know about that. The maneuvering jets on the majority of middle-tech fleet makes it very difficult for them to be flanked for very long I'd imagine. And flanking is perhaps the only advantage high tech ships have besides being able to retreat fast. 1v1 middle-tech ships would very likely die, but bunch the middle-tech ships together and I doubt there's going to be many openings for high tech ships. In a fleet vs fleet fight, the middle-tech's ability to arm kinetics and their heavier armor gives them a large edge against the high-tech ships.

Still, I will admit that I too am concerned with the absurd speed of high tech ships and their systems which make them even more faster.

Maneuvering jets help, a lot. Mostly because of speed bonus, because hey, most mid-line ships have turrets, and quite good turn rate to begin with.

Then you get skimming Medusa, which just pwns everything right now. Skimmers allow for much bigger "speed bonus", and they also make you very hard to hit during the skim itself. Just go full speed, skim in front of the let's say Eagle, skim again, you're now behind his back and unshielded engines, shoot, and skim again, voila, you're already gone of his range. Really, Medusa, IMO, is currently the best ship in Starfarer, in terms of combat usefulness.

[DM818]

Hyperion is pretty good 

[Tarran]

Maneuvering jets help, a lot. Mostly because of speed bonus, because hey, most mid-line ships have turrets, and quite good turn rate to begin with.

Is that sarcasm? If it is, remember, while most mid-line ships have turrets, 1/2 or more of an Eagle and Falcon's firepower is in their hardpoints, not their turrets. For a Conquest, it has a partial blind spot in front with little else besides missiles. And while they may have good turning, against fast ships faster turning is always good.

[TaLaR]

I'd say jets are not as powerful as it might seem - sure they are flank-able pretty much only by ships withs skimmer/teleporter, but they waste LOTS energy for this (20% base capacity) each activation. And  AI  uses them much more often then actually needed. For example Conquest fails terribly against any other capitals because of this (Cap against Cap is mostly about efficiently trading flux, unless you can outrange)...

About Medusa - skimming sure feels cool and is powerful, but single most powerful ship is Hyperion. With proper (ab?)use of teleport it can ignore any non 360 shields (omni rise a bit later then needed to block first shot right after jump which is enough with heavy blasters/am blasters, front shields fail for obvious reason)

[bluntfang]

I have been playing with a hyperion with four anti matter blasters.  Blink in, fire one volley, blink out.  Most hounds, lashers, most destoryers, gone in one shot.  Most fighter wings, gone (or at least half gone) in one go. I literally drag around a few hounds for cargo, then tell them to retreat right off the bat and fight the entire enemy fleet with the hyperion, crippling one ship at a time. The only thing I have to watch out for is being too close when the enemy ships blow up.  Even if they dont blow, many ships will overload from one volley to their shields.

They are uber powerful.

[Tarran]

For example Conquest fails terribly against any other capitals because of this (Cap against Cap is mostly about efficiently trading flux, unless you can outrange)...

Didn't the AI always suck on the Conquest, even before the systems?

[TaLaR]

For example Conquest fails terribly against any other capitals because of this (Cap against Cap is mostly about efficiently trading flux, unless you can outrange)...

Didn't the AI always suck on the Conquest, even before the systems?

Yes, it did, but for opposite reason - it failed to align broadside at target:)... Now it kind of does, though for huge flux cost. Removing torps from design helps a lot as well (current design in simulator has conflicting priorities between broadside cannons & front torps)

[hadesian]

Waaah!
I lost my Omen and accidentally saved.
Rest in peace you magnificent beast.

[TaLaR]

In previous version removing frigates from battlefield as soon as you see any enemy capital was common sense - otherwise they met stupid death. Now however, i've just defeated Hegemonia system defence fleet (3 Onslaughts, etc) using fleet consisting of mostly frigates (3 hyperions, 4 tempests,  2 wolves)  + 2 medusas and single Conquest. Without single ship lost! In fact only 2 ships received noticeable damage, and i was piloting one of those:)...

Coordinated attacks from multiple frigates on Onslaught look really impressive ...

[Thaago]

You all talk about high tech ships like they are omni-potent. Has anyone considered that these ships are now so good that they make mid-line inert?

I mean really, a mid-line fleet doesn't stand a chance anymore.

I disagree I haven't yet included any Eagles, Falcons, or Conquests but I can report that the Hammerhead is now a beast of a support ship. The following midline fleet tears high tech fleets apart:

2x Hammerhead (H Mauler + H Needler, 2 Tacs, 2 burst pd, 2 reapers)
1x Gemini
3x Broadswords
3x Talons

The teleportation and phase skimming is a great advantage in 1-1 but with fighters swarming around, long range shield pressure, and heavy maulers just waiting to tear off armor they are rendered pretty ineffective. Medusae are still fantastic ships but don't really like supported Broadswords. Its tough to get the shields down on the cruisers, but the Hammerheads outrange and outmaneuver both of them - effectively untouchable. I pilot one of them myself and strafe around to the engine side - once the shields go down pump in a reaper and game over.

[Doom101]

You all talk about high tech ships like they are omni-potent. Has anyone considered that these ships are now so good that they make mid-line inert?

I mean really, a mid-line fleet doesn't stand a chance anymore.

I disagree I haven't yet included any Eagles, Falcons, or Conquests but I can report that the Hammerhead is now a beast of a support ship. The following midline fleet tears high tech fleets apart:

2x Hammerhead (H Mauler + H Needler, 2 Tacs, 2 burst pd, 2 reapers)
1x Gemini
3x Broadswords
3x Talons

The teleportation and phase skimming is a great advantage in 1-1 but with fighters swarming around, long range shield pressure, and heavy maulers just waiting to tear off armor they are rendered pretty ineffective. Medusae are still fantastic ships but don't really like supported Broadswords. Its tough to get the shields down on the cruisers, but the Hammerheads outrange and outmaneuver both of them - effectively untouchable. I pilot one of them myself and strafe around to the engine side - once the shields go down pump in a reaper and game over.

also other than an onslaught its tough to beat the forward firepower of most midline ships IE the hammerhead, falcon,eagle and if you get multiples together they will shred practically anything especially multiple hammerheads

[DM818]

Waaah!
I lost my Omen and accidentally saved.
Rest in peace you magnificent beast.

Mine always die the first time I kill a cruiser because they will try to EMP it the shields will go down and it will blow up taking the omen with it.

[K-64]

My Omen is a beast on the field. It just strolls up in the middle of enforcers and all that like "hell yeah, I'm better than all of you's, who's the useless one now?" then gives them the big 'ol middle finger while at it. Seriously, one Omen and a few Medusae tear up the field like nobody's business