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Author Topic: How does Energy Mastery work?  (Read 1032 times)

TK3600

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How does Energy Mastery work?
« on: May 20, 2025, 04:52:13 PM »

Question 1: How does the range work?

Is the 600-1000 range the base range, or accounting for bonus like ITU?

Question 2: The bonus scales flux. How does the flux level work?

We know for range, 600 is max bonus, 1000 is none. For flux, is it 100% multiplier at 100% flux?

Question 3: How does energy weapon flux reduction work with other multiplier?

For example, Anubis cost 2x the flux for its energy weapons. Is the flux reduction functioning at base flux, making a weapon using 180% flux, or as a flat reduction, using 190% flux?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2025, 04:54:08 PM by TK3600 »
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Thaago

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2025, 05:17:07 PM »

I, Pixicode, and Vanshillar did some testing last patch that shed light on Question 2, found here: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=31347.0

TLDR of that testing:
1) The flux damage boost is linear, mapping 0-100% flux onto 0-30% damage.
2) The flux is the flux of the firing ship when the projectile hits. Upshot: flux from multiple AMBs firing at once "stacks" for the damage boost.
3) The range is dependent on the projectile distance travelled and does not depend on how the ship maneuvers after firing.

For question 1, I always assumed base range but don't have data for it. No idea for question 3! AMBs could probably test it by doing fire-pause real fast and just reading the flux value with and without the elite skill.
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TK3600

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2025, 05:38:25 PM »

So when it comes to Q1, if only base ramge is applied, then it favors frigate over  capitals. A capital with ITU using 600 range weapon + 60% range is 960 range, so bonus is minimal.

Range and flux work hand in hand. If range is far away, but flux is high, it will average out.
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Thaago

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2025, 06:56:00 PM »

Pretty much, yeah. A capital or escort package destroyer that is kiting at long range gets little value from the skill's default bonus. The elite could be a bunch of flux, but a good elite tied to a crud basic effect is probably only worth it on ships long on skills/elites.

There are non-frigate ships that can close the range either when winning or in the early stage of a fight (odyssey, remnants, fury/aurora/medusa etc). For them, the skill has decent upside, though tbh I still think ballistic mastery's flat 10% and range boost is overall better just because it is more consistent. That wants a whole fleet that is pushing hard at the enemy so the ships aren't left out to dry, of course.

For phase frigates using PD linked AMBs it is pure rocket fuel giving a damage boost that hovers in the 20-25% range with no penalty at all, that stacks multiplicatively with (target analysis + wolfpack tactics). I think the net damage boost is ~200% without even maxing it, which combined with an afflictors system jacks each AMB shot up to like 4200 damage...
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Phenir

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2025, 08:45:58 PM »

So when it comes to Q1, if only base ramge is applied, then it favors frigate over  capitals. A capital with ITU using 600 range weapon + 60% range is 960 range, so bonus is minimal.

Range and flux work hand in hand. If range is far away, but flux is high, it will average out.
I think you're thinking the bonus is based on the range of the weapon and not how close you are to target which is what it is based on (technically how far the projectile travels but whatever). You can still ram with a paragon and get the full bonus even though it has targeting core.
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Amoebka

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2025, 11:00:36 PM »

The close range damage bonus still applies to energy PD weapons, and it stacks multiplicatively with PD skills and hullmods. Being high on flux is when you drop your shields, so having your pd lasers go psycho mode at that time is helpful.

Design Compromises and EWM modify the same mutable stat - getEnergyWeaponFluxCostMod(). However, the hullmod modifies the percentage of it, and the skill - the multiplier. So in theory, their effects should be multiplicative (180% total).
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Princess of Evil

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2025, 11:39:48 PM »

I can answer question 1, it only considers base range (com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.skills.EnergyWeaponMastery, all skills are part of the API). Which means it's much better on frigates than capitals, yes, unless you make a funny AMB broadside boat out of a Paragon.
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TK3600

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2025, 12:28:52 AM »

The close range damage bonus still applies to energy PD weapons, and it stacks multiplicatively with PD skills and hullmods. Being high on flux is when you drop your shields, so having your pd lasers go psycho mode at that time is helpful.

Design Compromises and EWM modify the same mutable stat - getEnergyWeaponFluxCostMod(). However, the hullmod modifies the percentage of it, and the skill - the multiplier. So in theory, their effects should be multiplicative (180% total).
Thank you!
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Phenir

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2025, 05:36:24 AM »

The close range damage bonus still applies to energy PD weapons, and it stacks multiplicatively with PD skills and hullmods. Being high on flux is when you drop your shields, so having your pd lasers go psycho mode at that time is helpful.

Design Compromises and EWM modify the same mutable stat - getEnergyWeaponFluxCostMod(). However, the hullmod modifies the percentage of it, and the skill - the multiplier. So in theory, their effects should be multiplicative (180% total).
If they are multiplicative, it'd be up to 195%.
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gG_pilot

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2025, 01:28:15 AM »

I spent unhealty amount of  time in combat simulator and  Detailed  stats mod.
I  change pilot skills by editing  save game file, then let AI do the job.
I focus for shortest time to destroy all opponents,  taking  minimal dmg is bonus.

Result is :Energy mastery is weakest skill on  the list.  Any other skill has some  measurable improvements (for certain ships), but this one not. If you have skill or not, deasnt  matter.

For AI controlled ship, It  only could help you in a way,  that lost battles last longer.
For human controlled ship, It is theoretically possible get advantage in Phase Cloak ship, intentionally use this skill to uncloak on  high flux and burst fire. 
==========
A suggestion Energy mastery balance :

1. swap elite vs base effect
2. Change the range statement as fallows : Energy weapons deal up to +30% damage at close range, based on the firing ship's flux level.   (remove the flux part).

If they apply both those changes, some of my pilots could use it.
Now, non of my pilots use this skill.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2025, 01:47:36 AM by gG_pilot »
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TK3600

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2025, 01:35:48 PM »

I spent unhealty amount of  time in combat simulator and  Detailed  stats mod.
I  change pilot skills by editing  save game file, then let AI do the job.
I focus for shortest time to destroy all opponents,  taking  minimal dmg is bonus.

Result is :Energy mastery is weakest skill on  the list.  Any other skill has some  measurable improvements (for certain ships), but this one not. If you have skill or not, deasnt  matter.

For AI controlled ship, It  only could help you in a way,  that lost battles last longer.
For human controlled ship, It is theoretically possible get advantage in Phase Cloak ship, intentionally use this skill to uncloak on  high flux and burst fire. 
==========
A suggestion Energy mastery balance :

1. swap elite vs base effect
2. Change the range statement as fallows : Energy weapons deal up to +30% damage at close range, based on the firing ship's flux level.   (remove the flux part).

If they apply both those changes, some of my pilots could use it.
Now, non of my pilots use this skill.
It is amazing skill on Anubis + gigacannon. Always close by, always high on flux, but always fast enough to get out.
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Thaago

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2025, 02:43:41 PM »

@gG_pilot
For frigate phase ships, the un-intuitive fact that it is the firing ship's flux when the energy weapon hits turns it from a dud to the strongest skill boost for damage. On an afflictor or shade with pd-linked AMBs it gives 20-25% damage boost at all times, and because on phase ships soft flux doesn't matter, it doesn't even make the ship more likely to die like doing the same trick on shielded ships does. There isn't a need to drive up flux with the cloak to get the bonus: the AMBs firing drives up flux all on their own, to the maximum that the (capacity - hard flux) allows.

Example: say an afflictor has 3x AMB + a pd, but not enough flux to fire all 3 because of the hard flux, all weapons go through the "attempt to fire" animation/process, but only 2 of them would actually fire and consume flux/ammo, leaving the 'empty' soft flux at less than 1500 (the amount it would have taken the 3rd to fire).
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Phenir

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2025, 07:00:02 PM »

No idea on the methodology he used but I think most high tech ships would get some benefit from it. Cruisers and below can't even break 1k range without using additional range boosts alongside itu, or using beams. Of the 5 capitals that make extensive use of energy weaponry, radiant; nova; paragon; odyssey; executor, 3 have mobility systems so they have no issue getting in close and I am sure the remaining two won't mind extra fly swatting power.
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gG_pilot

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2025, 12:57:06 AM »

use of energy weaponry, radiant; nova; paragon; odyssey; executor, 3 have mobility systems so they have no issue getting in close
As  said, all combat tests are full AI in  simulator. Anyway with capital ship you do not want go close,  even AI knows that and backpedal as much as sped allows to keep range  advantage. When Capital loose range advantage problems are close. Odyssey is fast and ship system could leap forward, it is great ship for box down. Ideal Anti-pirate ship. However, when your metric is lenght of combat in seconds, and damage received, the occasional bonus is  not measurable. Result of combat is the same with or without the skill.
However, if you do the same with  Shield OR Rockets then  result is different.

@gG_pilot
For frigate phase ships, the un-intuitive fact that ...
Can AI use that ?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2025, 01:00:14 AM by gG_pilot »
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Amoebka

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Re: How does Energy Mastery work?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2025, 01:23:25 AM »

I do think the skill is kinda rubbish outside of some niche cases (afflictor etc). Even on something like Medusa, I only take it because there's nothing else to take, as one of the last picks. Meanwhile ballistic mastery is a no-brainer for any low-tech ship, and most midline ones.
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