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Starsector 0.98a is out! (03/27/25)

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Author Topic: What made me quit this run.  (Read 2422 times)

koprus

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2025, 12:21:39 AM »

imo officers should be named captains as they "captain" their ships not "officering" them and each faction should have a planet with captain training that you should take them and pay to fix them as you want for current ship needs. You want the captain to go to a different ship?
new training and skills for you sir. As it should be in real life.

It makes no sense as it is now with rng generator skills, this game is not a roguelike. Also the absurd amount of story points needed in this game cmon ... just remove all story points from officer skills make it pay to fix on the academies.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2025, 12:35:55 AM by koprus »
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Cryovolcanic

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2025, 05:23:44 AM »

"Just cheat bro" is not a valid response to a complaint.

What would be a valid response?

Almost everyone agrees that the current implementation of officers leaves a lot to be desired. But a change to the officer system won't come until we get .99 or later, which is at least a year out, if it comes at all.
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prav

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2025, 06:30:38 AM »

"Just cheat bro" is not a valid response to a complaint.

He explicitly asked for a mod and dev tools to solve his problem.
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Terethall

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2025, 06:46:06 PM »

just remove all story points from officer skills make it pay to fix on the academies.
This, but also remove all story points everywhere and replace them with a credit cost. Story points were a complete mistake.
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WhisperDSP

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2025, 01:07:51 PM »

Officer skill system even with the officer management mod made me quit this run. I want to try different things, but I'm locked into doing it through "balanced/random progression". You know what? I don't even care about the new content at this point. So much time dumped into this run and I haven't even gotten a single useful ship blueprint. And, oh boy, what fun it was trying to farm bounties for a single Legion when I needed 4. Even with console commands, it's mind-numbingly boring and tiresome.

Until there's a mod that allows to edit officers like AI cores and switching smods, and proper dev tools that allow cloning ships and officers, I'm done with Starsector.

It's like the most interesting aspect of this game was made to be as painfully uncomfortable as possible.

Oh, and tech-mining still being yet another useless waste of time FOR ALL THESE YEARS is really great! Also, no "in-game" ship search. As if running around playing casino with black markets if you wanted a specific ship is what everyone has the time to do.

A few responses to this, and not being disrespectful and all:

Finding a Legion (or other specific ships): Since you are willing to use the Console Commands mod, save the tedium and straight-up add the ship you want to your fleet. If you don't want to do that then deal with the tedium (easy mode is also an option to speed things up).
Code
list ships legion
addship legion_xiv

list ships onslaught
addship onslaught_xiv

addship onslaught_mk1 <<< for the giggles LOL
Useful ship blueprints: You can Console those in as well. Be careful, you can crash the game.

Alternatives:
* Scrape-raid the faction shipyards for blueprints (and deal with the consequences)
* Get special blueprint missions from the Storyteller (costs story points - console the story points in if you want)

Officers: I agree with this to a point. I would like to see spending a story point have the officer come up with an interface like that for AI core skill selection. Though once a skill is chosen, the officer should not be able to have the skills re-chosen at will - people aren't as flexible as an AI core with hypercognition being able to run training simulations at lightspeed. To me, people learning should be a one-and-done affair, not something to forget entirely and learn something completely new in its place.

I still like the ability to re-choose elite skills for officers by spending a story point. It's a good mechanic IMO.

i would like the ability to have a "stable" of officers, like some mods allow. It would be good to allow you to unassign officers from your ships and then shift around the "extra" officers that are currently in your "back bench". This would allow a player to nurse and level up officers to fit specific fleet styles, then to switch fleet styles by changing out ships and shifting the inactive officers from the "back bench" to being active. As it is, the game requires you to fire officers and re-grind their replacements experience.

Once players have done that a few times we will likely switch to console commands - I might make a video for use of the following (it can be tedious and there are some tips to help new users):
Code
addofficer aggressive 6
respec <officerslot>
Tech Mining: Yeah, Alex nerfed it some time back and hasn't revisited the system. Either use Yunru's mod or my mod (see my footer below).

In-game ship search: Console is all you have.
Code
list ships
findship sunder
forcemarketupdate

Edit:

Yes, visiting every single planet in the core worlds to find specific ships is a pain. Sometimes it's all you can do. I did that when I was last looking for Odyssey and Anubis: the black market ship maker is your friend, as is some of the legit officers who need to use up some production slots. Making someone a contact will improve your chances.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2025, 05:28:57 PM by WhisperDSP »
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Phenir

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2025, 05:09:28 PM »

In-game ship search: Console is all you have.
Code
list ships
findship sunder
forcemarketupdate
Stelnet also has market searcher for ships and other items. You need to configure it to show black markets or hidden markets though.
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WhisperDSP

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2025, 07:46:12 PM »

Stelnet also has market searcher for ships and other items. You need to configure it to show black markets or hidden markets though.
Nice one!

For the OP and others who might be interested:

THE DANGEROUS ART OF EDITING YOUR SAVE

MAKE A COPY OF YOUR SAVE!

You break your save, sucks to be you.

(No support, or caring, or anything other than rolling eyes and laughing, given by anyone. So copy your damn save first.)

Regarding removing S-Mods from your fleet, this assumes one or both of the following:

1/ You don't want to addship, addstorypoints, and rebuild the new ship from scratch

2/ The ship is a unique one that you bollocked up the S-Mods and you want to fix (or test) new ones

You can edit your save file to remove S-MODS:

((((FIRST))))
MAKE A COPY OF YOUR SAVE!!!


(I hope that I have stressed this enough.)

a) Open your save (campaign.xml file) in notepad or notepad++

b) Search for your ship by name, examples:





c) Scroll down until you find the section which describes the s-mods on this ship, example for the Oldslaught:



d) Remove the S-Mod that you don't want from all three locations, example I am removing the S-Mod "reinforcedhull":



NOTE: ALWAYS LEAVE AT LEAST ONE S-MOD. If you remove all then you may bust your save. At least, I'm not risking it - I can S-Mod in something else, then re-edit the game to remove the final S-Mod that I don't want to keep.

e) Save. Load your game. Console in story points. Build in more s-mods. See note above.

Now lets say that you have a ship where you integrated an AI core. Lets say that it's a Gamma core. Now you want to put in an Alpha core. You cannot remove the Gamma core - ooops.

You can edit your save file to allow removal an integrated AI Core captain:

(Do I really need to stress again the importance of making a copy of your save file? Alrightalrightalright, make a copy of your damn save file.)

i) Find your ship by name, as the above - let us look for the Oldslaught

ii) Scroll down to where you find $captain_unremovable like this:



iii) You can:

* Change "true" to "false" - I have done this and it works

* Remove the entire selected section as above - I have done this and it works

Probably the best is the first way, changing "true" to "false":



iv) Save. Load game. Console in a story point. Continue.

Lets say that you really want a ship to be automated. (HOW DARE THE ZIGGURAT BE AUTOMATED WITHOUT BEING AUTOMATED!!!1!11!!)

You can edit your save file to make the ship be automated:

(Hmph.)

Un) Find an automated ship to use for an example, in this case we will look at the mods on the Oldslaught

Dos) Now we scroll down to where the mods are listed - oh look, is that "automated" we see there?



Tres) I wonder what happens when we paste that into the same section in the Ziggurat?



Hmmm!) Not *quite* what we were looking for...though it does have interesting possibilities for a hullmod...



Hmmm?) Lets go look at the Oldslaught ship definition (starsector-core\data\hulls\onslaught_mk1.ship):



Automated! Interesting! Lets see about adding that to the Ziggurat ship definition (starsector-core\data\hulls\ziggurat.ship):



Hmph. No change, okay. Still, the ship does act as an automated ship now: it will only accept an AI Core officer and doesn't require / allow crew. That's maybe cheating bonus enough.

(What, you're still here? Doing dangerous stuff with me? Go ahead, what can possibly go wrong...)

Siffrin

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2025, 08:09:09 PM »

The mod D-Mod Services also allows you to remove s-mods for a price after completing the Usurpers questline.
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Thogapotomus

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2025, 06:10:07 AM »

-snip-

Nice job writing all that up with pictures. I'm sure that will be super helpful to anyone looking to save edit for the first time.
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WhisperDSP

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2025, 10:31:51 AM »

-snip-

Nice job writing all that up with pictures. I'm sure that will be super helpful to anyone looking to save edit for the first time.

Yah, pictures make it so much easier to explain things.

At least the save is an XML file. Older games (like Diablo) we were using a hex-editor.

WhisperDSP

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2025, 01:01:34 PM »

The Beginner's Guide to Console Commands and Officers:



Best in a show-and-tell video.

Megas

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2025, 01:23:01 PM »

In my current game, I mostly ignored officers (did not level them up past level 1 or 2) and my fleet was mostly an automated fleet with two neural-linked human flagships by the end of my game.  Ziggurat, Paragon, MK1, and nine Remnant missile frigates (Four Lumens with AMSRMs and five Glimmers with Hungering Rifts) was what I ended up using against pirates or non-human enemies.

The officer situation is very bad despite being like this for at least a few releases.  I do not want MK1 to lose the free alpha core use until the inflexible officer problem is fixed.  Officers the way they are is intolerable.  Their skills are important to fleet composition, but they are much harder to swap out than ships or weapons, something that old releases did not need to bother with.
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WhisperDSP

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2025, 02:01:14 PM »

In my current game, I mostly ignored officers (did not level them up past level 1 or 2) and my fleet was mostly an automated fleet with two neural-linked human flagships by the end of my game.  Ziggurat, Paragon, MK1, and nine Remnant missile frigates (Four Lumens with AMSRMs and five Glimmers with Hungering Rifts) was what I ended up using against pirates or non-human enemies.

The officer situation is very bad despite being like this for at least a few releases.  I do not want MK1 to lose the free alpha core use until the inflexible officer problem is fixed.  Officers the way they are is intolerable.  Their skills are important to fleet composition, but they are much harder to swap out than ships or weapons, something that old releases did not need to bother with.
I hear ya.

I have done the whole dismiss, hire new, and go-through-hell grinding their levels up several times. Then repeating it because their last skill does not include one that is needed by the desired end-build.

It is painful.

Imagine this as a real-life scenario, a business-owner/boss and his employee electrician:

Boss: We want you to learn how to install Air Conditioning, we're starting to get lots of those jobs.

Electrician: Sorry Boss. I can only learn how to wire up some stuff in houses: lights, extractor fans, stovetops and ovens.

Boss: No problems, we will train you. (Mentoring.)

Electrician: Okay Boss. I can also learn how to connect a house to mains power, and do safe underwater lighting for swimming pools.

Boss: Seriously? You can't learn or be taught how to install Air Conditioning?

Electrician: No Boss. I can't touch that stuff.

Boss: Dismissed!

Electrician: Hey wait! You can't do that! <escorted from the building>

Boss: <to secretary> Put out a job listing for someone who already has the ability to install Air Conditioning. Hopefully we can train them up to do the other things we need done as well.

Yeah...right.

This is why I'd like mentored officers to have the full interface of skills to choose from, like the AI cores get. A one-and-done choice, not as easily changed as AI cores. Yet the ability to learn if properly trained aka mentored.

(My armchair general knows squat about Target Analysis, however there is plenty of training tapes available.)

eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2025, 04:38:08 PM »

In my current game, I mostly ignored officers (did not level them up past level 1 or 2) and my fleet was mostly an automated fleet with two neural-linked human flagships by the end of my game.  Ziggurat, Paragon, MK1, and nine Remnant missile frigates (Four Lumens with AMSRMs and five Glimmers with Hungering Rifts) was what I ended up using against pirates or non-human enemies.

The officer situation is very bad despite being like this for at least a few releases.  I do not want MK1 to lose the free alpha core use until the inflexible officer problem is fixed.  Officers the way they are is intolerable.  Their skills are important to fleet composition, but they are much harder to swap out than ships or weapons, something that old releases did not need to bother with.
I hear ya.

I have done the whole dismiss, hire new, and go-through-hell grinding their levels up several times. Then repeating it because their last skill does not include one that is needed by the desired end-build.

It is painful.

Imagine this as a real-life scenario, a business-owner/boss and his employee electrician:

Boss: We want you to learn how to install Air Conditioning, we're starting to get lots of those jobs.

Electrician: Sorry Boss. I can only learn how to wire up some stuff in houses: lights, extractor fans, stovetops and ovens.

Boss: No problems, we will train you. (Mentoring.)

Electrician: Okay Boss. I can also learn how to connect a house to mains power, and do safe underwater lighting for swimming pools.

Boss: Seriously? You can't learn or be taught how to install Air Conditioning?

Electrician: No Boss. I can't touch that stuff.

Boss: Dismissed!

Electrician: Hey wait! You can't do that! <escorted from the building>

Boss: <to secretary> Put out a job listing for someone who already has the ability to install Air Conditioning. Hopefully we can train them up to do the other things we need done as well.

Yeah...right.

This is why I'd like mentored officers to have the full interface of skills to choose from, like the AI cores get. A one-and-done choice, not as easily changed as AI cores. Yet the ability to learn if properly trained aka mentored.

(My armchair general knows squat about Target Analysis, however there is plenty of training tapes available.)
I take it you don't save scum as a matter of principle?
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WhisperDSP

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Re: What made me quit this run.
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2025, 08:01:01 PM »

I take it you don't save scum as a matter of principle?

Naw, I have the brain of a goldfish - keep forgetting to save. ???

Then I figured that if I was gonna cheat via save-scumming, I might as well learn how to cheat via console. ::)
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