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[ChaseBears]

Did a search and couldn't find anything on this, nor did it seem to be in the patch notes.

Ill-advised modifications seems to be hitting extremely hard this patch compared to my vague memories of before. Admittedly, I was never one for LP ships or SO builds, but I was really looking forward to the new Venture (LP). So when I got the chance I jumped in one right away.  But the experience was frustrating. I kept losing mounts to critical malfunctions very early on, and the Venture is not exactly overflowing with weapons. I had to shelve it until I could afford to Restore the thing, which was a bit later in that game. After that it was a lot more fun, at least once I figured out fitting dual flaks to it. Still, it concerned me.

It's hard to notice critical malfunctions on enemy fleets, but I ran a few sim frigate duels with Luddic Path ships and paid closer attention. Losing half of their weapons in the first 60 seconds wasn't even unusual. This unfortunate Lasher was particularly badly off, losing all but one weapon. I didn't have to strain to get this sample, it was approximately the fourth frigate I spawned.



I'm curious if anyone else has noticed a change, or if Ill-advised Mods has just always been this brutal.

[Elkyir]

I remember when I first started playing years ago I tried using some (LP)Brawlers without restoring them to see how bad it was and it was legitimately unusable for most fights. I'm fairly certain they haven't changed anything because I don't think I had a full rack of weapons for working more than the first 20 seconds of using the ship last time I tried them.

[Killer of Fate]

i recall it was always like this

[TheMeInTeam]

Started playing in 0.97, and LP ships were unusable w/o restoring.  Seems it's been the case a lot longer than that!

[Sakamoto]

This D-mod has always been like a 50% CR reduction. I swear this exists only to nerf the Path and make their ships more costly to restore for proper use.

[Phenir]

This D-mod has always been like a 50% CR reduction. I swear this exists only to nerf the Path and make their ships more costly to restore for proper use.

Considering the path's whole gameplan is to make it costly to fight them even if they ultimately lose, I'm fine with that. Fighting suicidal bombers enemies is never fun.

[TheMeInTeam]

This D-mod has always been like a 50% CR reduction. I swear this exists only to nerf the Path and make their ships more costly to restore for proper use.

Considering the path's whole gameplan is to make it costly to fight them even if they ultimately lose, I'm fine with that. Fighting suicidal bombers enemies is never fun.

It would be more costly to fight them if their weapons function!

[Princess of Evil]

Pathers are dangerous to fight as is, with some genuinely decent builds, they don't need their SO loadouts to work well on top of it, and it's intentionally easy to fix with just one button.

[Killer of Fate]

Pathers are dangerous to fight as is, with some genuinely decent builds, they don't need their SO loadouts to work well on top of it, and it's intentionally easy to fix with just one button.

i would say weakest human faction in the game, but all factions are weak rn except Persean League and Hegemony in terms of doctrine

the only thing they have going for them is the fact that they have admiral skills and a decent stat spread. But autofit and ill-advised mods are screwing them over so hard

there's a 50% chance their chainguns will get exchanged for heavy mortars and there's a 100% chance that their weapons will break.

Like... Why?

I modded their ill-advised to have less of a chance to trigger by a factor of 10, and then i actually get to see those ships do something... WOW

[TheMeInTeam]

Pathers are dangerous to fight as is, with some genuinely decent builds, they don't need their SO loadouts to work well on top of it, and it's intentionally easy to fix with just one button.

Not consistent with my experience at all.  Their ships have tons of dmods in addition to the guaranteed one, and most of the ships they run in actual fleets are statistically poor at baseline.  Prometheus is actually a reasonable space technical but they don't have many.  Without ill-advised mods, they'd probably be on par or a little better than pirates.  With those taking a big % of their potential out of fights, I'm not sure they even match pirate fleets...aka they make a case for the easiest faction to fight in the game, unless you count domain autoships.

Even LC suffers due to their capitals being bad in AI hands, but they better than LP.

[Sarissofoi]

Yeah. Always was a thing. Remnant from the past when Pathers were a joke faction.
Can you share the mod or the code for un nerf?

[Firestone]

I started to play in 097 and tried one of the Destroyers, in sim it was extremely difficult to keep its weapon functioning. And in real battle with LP it is quite scary to see a tons of SO ships rushing towards your face and pour a ton of firepower on you. But they do lose a lot of mounts a short while after engaging. If without the ill-advised modifications d-mod, it would be a lot more powerful than pirates since they can literally rush to you and punch your face, while pirates ship are mostly slow or weak and normally had half of the firepower compared to the LP variants.

[Killer of Fate]

Yeah. Always was a thing. Remnant from the past when Pathers were a joke faction.
Can you share the mod or the code for un nerf?

Uhhhhhhhhh
I have it within a larger mod, but Lortus has made one specifically that disables Ill-Advised Mods
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=24135.0

It still seems to work on 0.98
it does it differently to mine though, it makes the Ill-Advised not occur at all, where as for my mod there is a still rare chance it will occur to balance out built-in Safety Overrides, I could try to isolate this specific part from my mod into a singular specific thing

Okay, done
(linked to post)

You can see with this that Ill-Advised Modifications will happen quite rarely and will only be visible if you are really unlucky or there are many Pather ships and one of them will lose like an MG or something

I have made the hullmod impossible to remove to balance it out.

[TheMeInTeam]

I started to play in 097 and tried one of the Destroyers, in sim it was extremely difficult to keep its weapon functioning. And in real battle with LP it is quite scary to see a tons of SO ships rushing towards your face and pour a ton of firepower on you. But they do lose a lot of mounts a short while after engaging. If without the ill-advised modifications d-mod, it would be a lot more powerful than pirates since they can literally rush to you and punch your face, while pirates ship are mostly slow or weak and normally had half of the firepower compared to the LP variants.

- Pirate eradicators and such sometimes run safety overrides too.
- The only LP destroyer is the manticore (LP), and they don't run many
- Venture (LP) does not have SO
- Colossus mk 2 has 70 speed with SO, and has a hammer barrage to go with only light ballistic mounts otherwise.  AKA, this is not fast.
- Prometheus mk 2 is a legitimate ship, but it does not have SO and does not seem out of line compared to other capitals or heavy cruisers.

In other words, the only "fast" ships that "rush to punch you in the face" are:

- Hound (LP)
- Gremlin (LP)
- Kite (LP)
- Lasher (LP)
- Brawler (LP)
- Cerberus (LP)

Brawlers w/o ill-advised mods command some respect to early game fleets.  You can make a case for lashers and cerberus too, maybe.  I'm not seeing how this is much more dangerous than pirates, even w/o ill-advised mods.  It's marginally more so early game, and once a player has a fleet with some range to it, the frigates just pop on approach while the rest of their stuff can do nothing.

[Phenir]

LP venture doesn't use SO but it does have orion device, it's still quite fast if it wants to be. Colossus mk 2 has 120 top speed because it always has zero flux. 120 top speed means most ships cannot outrun it.
LP eradicators always use SO variant and they will definitely run right into your face to punch you. These are the ships that give the most grief currently. Pirate eradicators that happen to use the SO variant don't compare because they aren't always reckless (pirate doctrine is 4 aggression to LP's 5). Also LP use regular eradicators, not pirate ones, so they also have AAF making them even more dangerous.
As for the other ships, assuming you are fighting an equivalent fleet at least, they will drown you in sheer numbers. If some of them get through (gremlins will definitely get through) you've now got hammers and acgs for days on you. You can't tell me LP brawlers aren't very dangerous when they are the most meta frigate currently.