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[sagsag1010]

on one had they extreme powers that can be thought as "defining god" but on the other hand it can be reasonably thought they are natural (althou eldrich) beings thus they are creations of god. what do you think?

[Killer of Fate]

*this response has been edited down*

Uhhhhhhhhhhh... Sry the initial response was a bit rude
I'd find it real funny if they found out and would be 50 50 on thinking it's one of the horrors or actual wonders of the universe

Omega is Moloch
the squids are more organic in nature seemingly

But then again... Machinery evolves to be organic
So I suppose it would be very confusing for Luddic believers to see that universe loops itself and that technology and biology are merely... Moments in time

[nathan67003]

99.9999999% odds they don't think about them.

Not just "I need to ignore this for the sake of my sanity", not just "church says they're not real" but "see no evil hear no evil" type stuff

[sagsag1010]

But what about the 0.0000000001% at the top that do have to think about that?

[Antelope Syrup]

Well we actually sort of know, (spoilers ahead)

Spoiler

Luddic believers consider them to be literally demonic. If you dock at a church world and have a ship with a shrouded hullmod, you instantly drop to -50 or so rep with them and they tell you to not bring back anything like that. In the codex entry lore blurbs about the shrouded enemies, excerpts from luddic sermons and the book of ludd are used. On top of that there are some similarities in naming and phrasing between shrouded enemies and other excerpts we've seen from the book of ludd.

"When the defiler unbinds the warp and weft of the Creator, what will they find behind that starry tapestry? A thousand thousand eyes darkened by trespass."

- The Book of Ludd, Visions 7:4
Sound like anything? Perhaps some sort of ... dark or shrouded eye? Maybe a bit of a stretch.

However there are other, likely more intentionally drawn parallels.

   "When the end comes, as it must soon come, it will be a yawning abyss darker than fear and filled of teeth, It will come to swallow hope, it will, it will come to swallow sin, it will, and the only escape is the Path, it is. The Path!"

- selection from the Archives of Holy Inquisition, Hesperus
This is the description of the Shrouded Maw, and sounds like a literal physical description, despite the flowery language our Inquisitor chooses to use.

"And so did wrath fall like a thunderbolt, and the blow was felt by all of the Faithful, and by all the unbelievers in the firmament. All then were a-murmur, near and far, and all did say 'Did you not hear a great shout of anger?'. But none could name its word, nor repeat it."

- The Book of Ludd, Visions 7:7
Description for the Rift Lightning weapon. Again, the mention of thunder seems like a direct parallel to the weapon it's supposed to be describing, but it really could just be a fun allegory David decided to through in too.

There are other quotes from the Book of Ludd or particularly from Luddic Inquisitors, which I don't believe we've seen referenced before this update in such quantity. (There's also a reference to them in the False Idols quest, first time I heard mention of them). Importantly though, in Visions 7:7, the wrathful "offense" was felt by both the believers and non believers, according to Ludd. Someone is angry at all of humanity for something. If it were the wrathful punishment of God, the one Ludd concieved of anyhow, then it's plausible it would punish even his believers, (Abrahamic Gods are known to do that), but I personally feel its more compelling if some other supernatural force was responsible. But if the entity were purely malignant to the Luddic God and his people, then it would also not make sense for it to punish believers and non believers evenly. So it's my belief that the Luddic conception of the Shrouded Dwellers, is that yes they are demons, but perhaps not the malignant evil kind, but sort of a "cruel arbiter" or punishing force that works with God but isn't a really something you want to be in a room with. Sort of like the Krampus to Santa Klaus.

Its worth noting that it seems like the Luddic faithful believe that the Shrouded Dwellers will instigate or execute the end of the world. Again, something that is almost certainly believed to be part of God's plan, which could lend some credence to my little theory.

[close]

Now whether or not the Luddic faithful are even remotely correct in their beliefs about the Shrouded Dwellers is a different question entirely; though Ludd seemed privy to some very esoteric knowledge himself.

[nathan67003]

I wonder; if the RED-ACTED don't provoke or procure a feeling similar to the Music, as Ludd likely heard it (and Cotton, and the player), how would it otherwise relate to it? Adjacent? Antagonist to the Music? Unrelated?

[FederationPrime]

The current-cycle Luddics think they're demonic because they seem demonic, but I'd bet that SUPER ALABASTER and the Alpha AIs would be exceedingly hostile to whatever's lurking in the abyss.

My running theory: Ol' Ludd thought angels were singing to him, or maybe he realized what it really was, either way the abyss monsters were whispering in his ear.

As for the quotes that Antelope Syrup gathered? I think the abyss monster was promising Ludd that it wouldn't eat people who contributed to humanity's funeral pyre, like some kind of Roko's Basilisk. If he contributed to neutralizing humanity's (and seemingly the Domain's) biggest defence, AI and technology more broadly, there would be some kind of salvation waiting for him. Maybe in the end it'll be the REDACTED and Hegemony who save everyone's sorry hides.

[Doctorhealsgood]

Who knows maybe the Luddic church DID encounter (and survived) shrouded dwellers in the past for unknown reasons and it was passed on. Maybe someone was smart enough to weaponize the dwellers remains but it went wrong somehow and it caused disaster way back then.
Stuff like the S-Modded shrouded mantle makes you think.
What if hungering rift is the equivalent of a sacrificial altar to a shrouded dweller and the S-Mantle is you tricking it into thinking the ship is part of itself so it shares part of its bounty with it? What if it goes wrong and the ship actually becomes part of it? Well at this point i am rambling luddic paranoia about demonic possesion.

[Simbach Vazo]

"Where there is life, that is the throne of God, and all that is good can be found there."
It is alive and a product of Creation. I rationalize the Church reacting badly to the hullmods as "Well if it's on a ship and it looks absolutely insane, it must be some reality-defying technology and a product of the devil."

[TK3600]

They clearly hate it more than anything else.

1. Radiant in your fleet with alpha core? Meh, whatever.
2. Ziggurat that spawns mote, the very thing Ludd tried to stop personally? Whatever.
3. Ships overloaded with abominable threat hull mod? Pass.
4. You ship glows red? Kill on sight.

[Killer of Fate]

SPOILERINO (spoiler warning)

Spoiler

in rules.csv the signals you disrupt in the abyss are referred to as calves
although this could be a red herring
there is some probability that i might be right
the Abyssal entity is merely a mother defending its young. And its hostility towards the player isn't in any way evil. And Luddic interpretation a mere product of superstition

[close]

edit:

Spoiler

I have not considered the fact that this might be referring to a different hyperspace entity

[close]

[Doctorhealsgood]

SPOILERINO (spoiler warning)

Spoiler

in rules.csv the signals you disrupt in the abyss are referred to as calves
although this could be a red herring
there is some probability that i might be right
the Abyssal entity is merely a mother defending its young. And its hostility towards the player isn't in any way evil. And Luddic interpretation a mere product of superstition

[close]

edit:

Spoiler

I have not considered the fact that this might be referring to a different hyperspace entity

[close]

Spoiler

I mean they do feel like Abyssal hyperspace... Fauna(). So if we go from that route if we are getting attacked by them it probably is because we are either food (What DO they eat? Flux? (Whenever you vent with a shrouded hullmod the cloud seems to get excited)  Drive field emissions? (Like those hyperspace ghosts that drain your field repeatedly because i assume they think our fleet is a "mother" of sorts only to be rudely told to go away whenever we interdict them.) Hyperdrive engines? (Would explain why they don't just drain our field like the former) Matter in general? (Would explain why hungering maw works the way it does) or we are messing with their young.

[close]

[Killer of Fate]

SPOILERINO (spoiler warning)

Spoiler

in rules.csv the signals you disrupt in the abyss are referred to as calves
although this could be a red herring
there is some probability that i might be right
the Abyssal entity is merely a mother defending its young. And its hostility towards the player isn't in any way evil. And Luddic interpretation a mere product of superstition

[close]

edit:

Spoiler

I have not considered the fact that this might be referring to a different hyperspace entity

[close]

Spoiler

I mean they do feel like Abyssal hyperspace... Fauna(). So if we go from that route if we are getting attacked by them it probably is because we are either food (What DO they eat? Flux? (Whenever you vent with a shrouded hullmod the cloud seems to get excited)  Drive field emissions? (Like those hyperspace ghosts that drain your field repeatedly because i assume they think our fleet is a "mother" of sorts only to be rudely told to go away whenever we interdict them.) Hyperdrive engines? (Would explain why they don't just drain our field like the former) Matter in general? (Would explain why hungering maw works the way it does) or we are messing with their young.

[close]

the shrouded dweller feels like an interdimnesional entity that stabilises in our dimension

it's not typical fauna, per say
it's not going around, eating berries I think

it anchors itself within our dimension. It's reverse phase cloak

i think the way this works is that these lights... Are some sort of a point of importance to them? Not necessarily related to procreation. But possibly so. And it's just some sort of a weakness in the abyssal hyperspace. Some sort of a rift? Or a gathering of unidentifiable matter

And us disrupting it is creating some sort of a problem

So, no. I don't think it eats anything
it's not metabolical in nature
it's literally metaphysical

[Doctorhealsgood]

Thankfully for us the dwellers don't live in P-Space otherwise actually getting to meet the full creature in a dive would be properly terrifying.

[Horizon]

I think they know way better about the [RED-ACTED] and interdimentional stuff than they might publicy acknowledge. Especially people like Cotton.

They sugarcoat everything with religious imagery but it's clear they gazed into something and decided to shut down everything.