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[SCC]

Hammerhead rear smalls used to point forwards, but don't anymore, because of SO. But SO isn't what it used to be, so I think it's time to go back and return Hammerhead's rear smalls to their original arcs.

[Thaago]

Yes please! Getting forward PD would help them a lot, and they rely on those 2 small forward mounts as part of the main firepower.

In most non-SO cases these are PD; the rarer 1000 range HVD/Mauler + Tac laser builds are significantly weaker than other destroyers in that range bracket, so going up to 4x tac lasers is not going to damage balance. 4x converging LRPD (like the olden build) gives it a nice contribution to PD at the cost of a lot of its firepower. 4x Light needlers + 2x Mortars is possible, but OP expensive and non-SO Hammerheads are flux constrained.

[Killer of Fate]

no, god. Please no

Just give it more flux and flux venting to allow it to face tank missiles.

Those weird back slots aiming at the front in a weird pattern would just make LR PD Laser or Burst PD the go to. Right now there is an interesting choice between that and Vulcans.
Additionally it would just look horribly wrong. Disrupting the whole ship's 3D perception

[Wyvern]

Also yes please.

Alternate suggestion A: If four small ballistic turrets that can face forwards is considered OP, convert the rear two turrets to small energy.

Alternate suggestion B: If you really really don't like those rear turrets having firing arcs across the front of the ship, add an extra center-forwards small energy turret and +5 OP to (mostly) offset the cost of installing a burst PD there. There's a decent spot on the sprite for a central small turret at the base of the forwards hammer, where it joins the neck. (I don't personally see the problem - this used to work just fine - but I know it's something Alex keeps bringing up.)

Edit:

Additionally it would just look horribly wrong. Disrupting the whole ship's 3D perception

Funny, when I look at it, the front hammer looks pretty flat, while the rear section has some clear verticality to it. Having those rear turrets able to fire forwards is visually fine.

Those weird back slots aiming at the front in a weird pattern would just make LR PD Laser or Burst PD the go to. Right now there is an interesting choice between that and Vulcans.

...That was actually more of an interesting choice when they could fire forwards, and so the question was "Do I install something that (partially) benefits from the ship system, or something that's better at shooting down missiles?" As they are now, the go-to options are already LRPD, or burst PD, or the very best option I've found is to just leave them empty and use Converted Hangar.

[Thaago]

no, god. Please no

Just give it more flux and flux venting to allow it to face tank missiles.

Those weird back slots aiming at the front in a weird pattern would just make LR PD Laser or Burst PD the go to. Right now there is an interesting choice between that and Vulcans.
Additionally it would just look horribly wrong. Disrupting the whole ship's 3D perception

It wasn't a problem before. More flux is not the answer to everything - if anything it is the worst solution, because it removes any tradeoff between offense and defense.

[Killer of Fate]

no, god. Please no

Just give it more flux and flux venting to allow it to face tank missiles.

Those weird back slots aiming at the front in a weird pattern would just make LR PD Laser or Burst PD the go to. Right now there is an interesting choice between that and Vulcans.
Additionally it would just look horribly wrong. Disrupting the whole ship's 3D perception

It wasn't a problem before. More flux is not the answer to everything - if anything it is the worst solution, because it removes any tradeoff between offense and defense.

no, it would make LG Hammerhead viable

>:3

Spoiler

[close]

edit: it would also make recovery for it easier
One of the issues with Hammerhead fighting in short to medium ranges is that it finds it very difficult to actually restore its durability after taking damage. I feel like a 10 DP destroyer should be able to actually withstand some punishment through its shields alone. Which would justify its PD grid providing protection only if its frontal slots are sacrificed. Similarly to how you would place Heavy Burst PD on medium mounts of a Falcon. It would be thematic to Midline of having very restricted design. But the ability to be more flexible in design?

Champion too being able to equip a Paladin PD or a HIL.
Falcon Eagle with Heavy Burst or Graviton/IR Autolance/Ion Beam
And then this...

If you gave it its back slots facing forward kinda back, this would cause Hammerhead to not actually improve in any aspects except long-range defense via beam weapons. Rendering as I said the Hybrid slots pointless. Because Vulcan and Light MG are designed for close quarter defense of the engines.

I mean there could be specific scenarios with PD+. But these weapons shooting like that through the entirety of the ship's hull to hit a missile at the front would imply Hammerhead having a very odd architecture

Also giving more flux is a last resort buff. I'll admit. I would honestly take away the flux buff from Falcon and Eagle for example that they have received in recent year or so. But for Hammerhead specifically. It fits. That ship is supposed to be a next step in destroyer evolution. And yet it has barely more flux capacity than a dated Enforcer.

In fact Hammerhead only has 200 more flux capacity. And 50 more flux venting.
I would give it like... 4200 base flux capacity? Maybe increase of base flux venting from 250 to 275 or 280... Playing it safe though here. Cause I don't really think Hammerhead is any way more weaker than other destroyers. Destroyers in generally are quite pathetic.

Unless you were willing to start a destroyer revolution... Hmmmmmmmm, though maybe Hammerhead IS weaker than other destroyers. Shrike has 0.7 shields and is faster. And has medium missile. But it lacks range? But it is also cheaper by 2 DP. Can field beams.
Enforcer is tankier. Manticore is more expensive but it is a perfect duellist. Sunder is annoying.

Okay. Hammerhead should have... 5200 flux capacity and 300 flux venting. If we want to REALLY buff it. But it should have 4200 flux capacity and 280 flux venting if we want to buff only by a small margin

Though tbh... One of the aspects that I would enjoy nerfing to justify giving Hammerhead more flux would be the ammofeed. I would gladly give it 5200 flux cap and 300 flux vent base if I reduced the flux spending reduction from 50% to 30%. Then it would encourage using energy weapons more on the ship.

edit edit: obviously this would also be a secret ploy to push buffs for Eradicator too

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

Well, I'm all for it - if nothing else because the icons for small rear mounts obviously point forward.

But this will have no perceptible effect on how Hammerhead performs in combat. The only PD that would even work in rear mounts is LRPD(all other are just too short range to reach in front of the shield) which does almost nothing. You're still better off with just putting Vulcans there as that at least guarantees defense from Salamanders.

I guess some silly 4x Tac Laser setup would be possible if Hammerhead had flux to spare but it absolutely doesn't.

[kaoseth]

Yes please! Getting forward PD would help them a lot, and they rely on those 2 small forward mounts as part of the main firepower. 

The 2 small forward mounts are the point defense you're looking for.     
 

Here's an idea for a Hammerhead buff.   Add two small fixed forward ballistic mounts, or swap the two small missile mounts to composite.   
 

[Chumbosity]

Those weird back slots aiming at the front in a weird pattern would just make LR PD Laser or Burst PD the go to. Right now there is an interesting choice between that and Vulcans.

...That was actually more of an interesting choice when they could fire forwards, and so the question was "Do I install something that (partially) benefits from the ship system, or something that's better at shooting down missiles?" As they are now, the go-to options are already LRPD, or burst PD, or the very best option I've found is to just leave them empty and use Converted Hangar.

There's a third question it adds, too: "Do I put even more AAF-compatible guns on it and disregard PD entirely?" And the answer is probably always "no, you don't do that." But it may help to teach newer players the lesson that PD isn't something to be disregarded in favour of "more bullets shoot good."

[Bungee_man]

I support un-nerfing the hammerhead; that layout sounds cool and has potential for a number of interesting things.

If, as some people are saying, it wouldn't be enough to make it viable again, I'd be okay with some kind of other buff as well. Maybe somewhat better flux capacity (but not dissipation, and maybe a slight reduction there if it's too much) to make it a bit less likely to immediately evaporate if things go poorly.

[Killer of Fate]

Additionally it would just look horribly wrong. Disrupting the whole ship's 3D perception

Funny, when I look at it, the front hammer looks pretty flat, while the rear section has some clear verticality to it. Having those rear turrets able to fire forwards is visually fine.

Those weird back slots aiming at the front in a weird pattern would just make LR PD Laser or Burst PD the go to. Right now there is an interesting choice between that and Vulcans.

...That was actually more of an interesting choice when they could fire forwards, and so the question was "Do I install something that (partially) benefits from the ship system, or something that's better at shooting down missiles?" As they are now, the go-to options are already LRPD, or burst PD, or the very best option I've found is to just leave them empty and use Converted Hangar.

I assumed those are just in the shape of Samurai pants (not necessarily pants, but you get it. Those weird... Pad pattern? Of like shells on top of shells?)

Spoiler

[close]

but they barely peak above the ship's architecture as to reduce its vertical hitbox


Vulcans don't scale with AAF, they already fire at max speed allowed by the game of 0.05. AAF will only reduce their flux cost which is already minuscule.
AAF does buff LMG and DLMG, but who would ever use those to protect the back of a Hammerhead?

[SCC]

But this will have no perceptible effect on how Hammerhead performs in combat.

The solution is obvious: more guns.

[Thaago]

But this will have no perceptible effect on how Hammerhead performs in combat.

The solution is obvious: more guns.

Hmmm, but that might not make any difference either... how about even more?

[Wyvern]

No, no, you're going the wrong direction with that. Small slots? Really? No, let's give it back the medium energy turrets it had back in the pre-Corvus days!

(...Only about 85% joking, even.)

[Thaago]

Kitbashing with slightly more care then (see attached):