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Starsector 0.98a is out! (03/27/25)

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Author Topic: Support ships  (Read 1474 times)

Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2025, 08:25:09 AM »

Here's some of them that could be rolled into a mid and high tech support ships.

Some good ideas there. Some more hullmods that could be combined with logistic ships(not necessarily capitals):

 - Salvage Gantry(no cruiser/capital version exists)
 - Surveying Equipment
 - Drive Field Stabilizer
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happycrow

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2025, 01:32:09 PM »

Some good ideas there. Some more hullmods that could be combined with logistic ships(not necessarily capitals):

 - Salvage Gantry(no cruiser/capital version exists)
 - Surveying Equipment
 - Drive Field Stabilizer

Yeah, the Venture captures some of that -- in a couple ways it's an upsized Shepherd -- but a larger salvage gantry option would be nice, since there aren't any ways to get bigger salvage boni than just hauling two Gantry with you.

Nobody argues that the (heavily-modified Tarsus) Milennium Falcon should be able to go toe to toe with a Star Destroyer (capital ship), but as a Logistics Enjoyer, I prefer running with the scrappy underdogs as often as possible.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2025, 01:37:02 PM »

Some good ideas there. Some more hullmods that could be combined with logistic ships(not necessarily capitals):

 - Salvage Gantry(no cruiser/capital version exists)
 - Surveying Equipment
 - Drive Field Stabilizer

Yeah, the Venture captures some of that -- in a couple ways it's an upsized Shepherd -- but a larger salvage gantry option would be nice, since there aren't any ways to get bigger salvage boni than just hauling two Gantry with you.

Nobody argues that the (heavily-modified Tarsus) Milennium Falcon should be able to go toe to toe with a Star Destroyer (capital ship), but as a Logistics Enjoyer, I prefer running with the scrappy underdogs as often as possible.
give Guardian Salvage Gantry and Surveying Equipment!
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Cruacious

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2025, 02:44:33 PM »

What about a dedicated repair ship? The ship can be destroyer or cruiser class and have a built-in hull mod that can allow it to more rapidly repair hull and armor damage for a ship or ships in a fleet. I can see a real niche for such a ship although I'm not entirely sure about how the mechanics of the ship should work.
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Wyvern

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2025, 03:02:36 PM »

What about a dedicated repair ship? The ship can be destroyer or cruiser class and have a built-in hull mod that can allow it to more rapidly repair hull and armor damage for a ship or ships in a fleet. I can see a real niche for such a ship although I'm not entirely sure about how the mechanics of the ship should work.
Personally, I'd go with this being an effect of the Salvage Gantry hullmod: add free & instant post-battle hull/armor repairs, ala the Field Repairs skill. Amount is equal to double the post-battle salvage bonus, with a hard cap of 50% - so a max of 75% free repairs if you also have the relevant skill. (Not that you can practically reach said hard-cap with vanilla ships, but you could hit it with mod-added capital-scale salvage vessels.)

...I probably still wouldn't cart around a salvage rig, but that change would make it actually tempting to keep one or two of the things in my fleet.
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Bungee_man

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2025, 03:47:06 PM »

Personally, I'd go with this being an effect of the Salvage Gantry hullmod: add free & instant post-battle hull/armor repairs, ala the Field Repairs skill. Amount is equal to double the post-battle salvage bonus, with a hard cap of 50% - so a max of 75% free repairs if you also have the relevant skill. (Not that you can practically reach said hard-cap with vanilla ships, but you could hit it with mod-added capital-scale salvage vessels.)

...I probably still wouldn't cart around a salvage rig, but that change would make it actually tempting to keep one or two of the things in my fleet.

I agree. An extra support ship that does X, Y, or Z is just going to be bought somewhere in midgame and left in the fleet, and isn't really all that interesting. Adding more things that existing support ships do/can do, though makes them mechanically richer.

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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2025, 04:41:35 PM »

every day without a cool capital grade salvage gantry is a sad day
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2025, 04:48:51 PM »

every day without a cool capital grade salvage gantry is a sad day
I think there's a mod  that adds a giant Shepherd. But I'm not sure if it's programmed and balanced properly. Or if it was just a concept (I mean not a concept. The sprite was finished. I'm just not sure if it was programmed into the game)

I remember it being a really high quality too. If you sneaked it in and built a good story around it. Then you would probably be able to fool someone into thinking it's vanilla
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Cruacious

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2025, 07:12:53 PM »

What about a dedicated repair ship? The ship can be destroyer or cruiser class and have a built-in hull mod that can allow it to more rapidly repair hull and armor damage for a ship or ships in a fleet. I can see a real niche for such a ship although I'm not entirely sure about how the mechanics of the ship should work.
Personally, I'd go with this being an effect of the Salvage Gantry hullmod: add free & instant post-battle hull/armor repairs, ala the Field Repairs skill. Amount is equal to double the post-battle salvage bonus, with a hard cap of 50% - so a max of 75% free repairs if you also have the relevant skill. (Not that you can practically reach said hard-cap with vanilla ships, but you could hit it with mod-added capital-scale salvage vessels.)

...I probably still wouldn't cart around a salvage rig, but that change would make it actually tempting to keep one or two of the things in my fleet.

That actually also makes sense. It would make the salvage rig far more worthwhile running in a fleet late game as it really is practically useless past the early game. Oh, how about a hull mod that can act as a comm link so you can get news and bounties? Would probably cost a TON of points though.
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Bungee_man

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2025, 10:03:44 PM »


Having more variety in the gameplay.

That's just it. A new capital ship in the game means a new 'boss' to be faced in early game, a new tough enemy that shows up in varying compositions in later-game fights, a new set of design challenges and playable builds, a new potential flagship to become skilled with, and so on. Hours of gameplay. Qualitatively different from using other ships, or facing them.

A new logistics ship may or may not get added to a player's fleet, and some numbers determining trip length will be slightly different. By mid-late game, fuel and cargo space are no longer major constraints anyways, though. You see it maybe once or twice in actual gameplay, and it works exactly the same as any other ship of the same class.

They take roughly the same amount of time to sprite out.


Quote
Having a more of a "signature" faction outlook besides the already existing Buffalo recolors.

I think it's more thematic for one ship to fill the role. "I want to carry as much supplies/fuel as I physically can, stealth and speed be damned" is a simple problem that can be solved with one fairly simple design each. Anyone considering designing a competitor faces competition from a tried-and-true design that already fills the role adequately, and already has a maintenance and manufacturing pipeline in place.

I've seen space sims go down both routes, with some giving every faction its own functionally identical superfreighter, and others plotting out sets of old designs that have survived the test of time and become ubiquitous across borders. I think the latter is more realistic and immersive - having the red faction spend billions of space-credits to make their own red megafreighter with 4100 cargo and 7.1 speed when they could just copy over the schematics for the yellow faction's megafreighter with 3900 cargo and 7.2 speed doesn't really make sense, and different nations in real life all tend to have broadly similar designs for big pieces of equipment whose jobs have been around for long enough.
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Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2025, 11:11:21 PM »

I wonder if people calling Salvage Rig "useless past early game" are the same people complaining they barely break even when bounty hunting.
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Wyvern

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2025, 11:33:13 PM »

I wonder if people calling Salvage Rig "useless past early game" are the same people complaining they barely break even when bounty hunting.
I will quite cheerfully call the Salvage Rig useless. Period. Early game, late game; industry skills or no industry skills, it does not matter: this ship is not worth having in my fleet.

And while I'm occasionally annoyed at the low payouts from pirate/pather base bounties, bounty hunting is one of my regular income sources all the way up until colony income renders other income sources irrelevant.
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SCC

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2025, 01:22:08 AM »

I actually forgot Salvage Rig helps with post-battle salvage. It makes such a little difference and I never needed it. Flagship-heavy playstyle suffering from success.

And while I'm occasionally annoyed at the low payouts from pirate/pather base bounties, bounty hunting is one of my regular income sources all the way up until colony income renders other income sources irrelevant.
It would be nice if base bounties were automatically accompanied with system bounties.

Killer of Fate

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2025, 04:08:42 AM »

salvage rigs don't matter because salvaging doesn't matter

the salvage rewards are so ridiculously minuscule that you start questioning as to why there is a faction based entirely around salvaging. When it is nearly always a net loss. The only kind of things that are worth salvaging are the things that salvagers will actually not salvage out of politeness to the player

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majk

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Re: Support ships
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2025, 04:44:08 AM »

High tech gets THE Revenant. It's a  phase cargo/tanker that is obnoxiously good and will carry you to end game fleets.
Whenever i start a new game i keep looking for one and will buy it even if i have to blow all my money on it.

You have almost no sensor presence with those guys in the fleet.
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