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[Ripmorld]

After playing around a bit more , Iv settled on my thoughts regarding some of the shoud weapons.

Hungering rift : actually I found some very nice usecase (e.g. on paragon , or hyperion) for it , and link fire being able to overcome the hard limit cap is also a way to allow you to exceed the dps cap. And further testing made me feel the flux effciency wasn't that big of a deal after all

Rift lightning : While I personally still advocates for a bit more hitstrength in trade for some rate of fire , but after discovering several niches for it (mainly on frigates like tempest and glimmer) I see it as a lot more versatile than it first appeared.

Now , the only weapon that I think still deserves a significant rework , is the Abyssal Glare. For it being an expensive endgame weapon gated behind heavy exploration and multiple endgame combat , and only being a medicore plasma side grade is really iffy. At the moment it is 500 (beam dps) + 200 (explosion dps) , which makes it on par with plasma on paper..

But the truth is that you are trading away so much utility for that efficiency, first its majority softflux , which if you don't have multiple stacking to quickly overwhelm enemy shield its just so much worse. And then is its main struggle , against armor , not even heavy armor , it will struggle even against the average cruiser armor unless you have a system like HEF to help you overpower that. And its low hit strength also makes it abyssal against the hull as well.
So in the end , what you have is a weapon that , on one hand , you save around 300 dissipation , but on the other hand , you are forced to divest more OP and flux dissipation you saved into fighting armor and help you stack up the softflux to overpower shield.
Which I suppose if you look only at the numbers it would look fine, but the issue is that the game isn't about the numbers. If I have a gun that is *slightly more efficient in some niche scenarios than my tradition gun I can buy off the market that I need to go ALL THE WAY OUT INTO THE ABYSS to hunt for , Its simply not worth it for me to even craft it.

I hope Alex understands that he should allow those hard to access weapons be more . .  powerful , its the same reason why swarm launcher buffalo mk II swarm fleet will beat a 2k dp ordo but majority of the player base is likely never going to use that strat. Why ? Because the time cost need to be sunk for grinding out those fabicators and coordinators and the swarm launchers are simply wayyyy too high. Majority of the player base simply will not go through that. And Therefore I think those shouded weapons should still be balanced similar to omaga weapons , where you kinda expect there to be around a limited number in a given fleet.

Ok so back to the Abyssal Glare, my personal proposed fix for the abyssal glare is to , change beam damage from 500 to 650 and change explosion damage type from energy to fragmentation. Therefore , it will be slightly worse off against shield due to higher percentage damage being softflux , but much much better against armor and does overall better against hull. And the numbers will be more comprehensible as less damage is tucked behind a hidden value that a normal player won't know.

Annnnd just one last bit , a bit of a QoL suggestion, Make thunderhead not proc on debris plz and thank you , I don't like seeing my capital ships waste so much flux on dead ships when it desperately needs to conserve flux.

[TK3600]

Abbysal glare is a pretty good weapon. It is a HIL sidegrade that is less useless vs shield, has EMP, in exchange for some range. I am still trying to figure out a good build for it because it is a very generalist weapon, you are more likely to mix specialist weapons. I reckon Champion shoulf be a good user of it.

[SCC]

Abyssal Glare would be an alright regular weapon. But you need to fight a boss faction to get it. Even Alex agrees it isn't good enough, it's why Shrouded Eye has a ship system to boost it.

[Spyro]

Abbysal glare is a pretty good weapon. It is a HIL sidegrade that is less useless vs shield, has EMP, in exchange for some range. I am still trying to figure out a good build for it because it is a very generalist weapon, you are more likely to mix specialist weapons. I reckon Champion shoulf be a good user of it.

You forgot 10 OP more expensive which is a huge difference.

[TK3600]

Abbysal glare is a pretty good weapon. It is a HIL sidegrade that is less useless vs shield, has EMP, in exchange for some range. I am still trying to figure out a good build for it because it is a very generalist weapon, you are more likely to mix specialist weapons. I reckon Champion shoulf be a good user of it.

You forgot 10 OP more expensive which is a huge difference.

I mean all shroud weapons are overpriced in OP, abbysal glare is ome of the less overpriced one. Rift lightning versus heavy blaster is far bigger offender. Rift lightning seems like a great weapon, until you see the OP cost.

[Ripmorld]

I mean all shroud weapons are overpriced in OP, abbysal glare is ome of the less overpriced one. Rift lightning versus heavy blaster is far bigger offender. Rift lightning seems like a great weapon, until you see the OP cost.

Rift lightning *is* a good weapon even with the OP cost.. you save like 100 (0.4 effciency x 250 dps) compared to your standard heavy blaster. , you do end up sacrificing a lot of dps but I find it a lot nicer fit on frigate. And the PD tag it have is actually a very considerable advantage when you take PD elite into account.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

I tried Abyssal Glare on Champions and was not impressed.

[Bungee_man]

Abbysal glare is a pretty good weapon. It is a HIL sidegrade that is less useless vs shield, has EMP, in exchange for some range. I am still trying to figure out a good build for it because it is a very generalist weapon, you are more likely to mix specialist weapons. I reckon Champion shoulf be a good user of it.

The HIL's use-case is twofold. It forces shields to stay up at extreme range (which is most of what I use it for), preventing effective disengagement and regrouping, and it provides flux- and OP-efficient anti-hull DPS for ships that desperately need it (again, at a range that mitigates the flux pressure from absorbing damage with your shields). I don't think glare fills either role especially well, and the ships that need these things are usually tight on OP anyways.

I'm against some weapons being straight-up better than others in all cases; ditto ships - that makes certain things dead content for old players and traps for newbies, and makes AI factions continuing to use them a crutch for players, making the game less interesting overall. I'm not sure what niche I'd give Glare, but I wouldn't want it to be a direct improvement over anything that already exists. Ideally, these weapons and hullmods should be strong but niche, making it useful to have a few, but inadvisable to spend hours grinding enough materials to put them on your whole fleet, and unique enough that you'd want to build your ships around them if you use them. To that ends, maybe have it be very flux-intensive, but build up some kind of charge on the target as long as the beam remains unbroken, applying an increasingly-strong graviton beam effect as it stays on target for a longer duration. It'd reward high-risk, high-reward gameplay, making it a natural fit on a player flagship and a suitably dangerous thing to face from a Shrouded Eye, but not something you'd want four of for every Paragon in your fleet.

Annnnd just one last bit , a bit of a QoL suggestion, Make thunderhead not proc on debris plz and thank you , I don't like seeing my capital ships waste so much flux on dead ships when it desperately needs to conserve flux.

As a side benefit, thunderhead being smart enough not to proc on dead things would be suitably creepy.

[TK3600]

I mean all shroud weapons are overpriced in OP, abbysal glare is ome of the less overpriced one. Rift lightning versus heavy blaster is far bigger offender. Rift lightning seems like a great weapon, until you see the OP cost.

Rift lightning *is* a good weapon even with the OP cost.. you save like 100 (0.4 effciency x 250 dps) compared to your standard heavy blaster. , you do end up sacrificing a lot of dps but I find it a lot nicer fit on frigate. And the PD tag it have is actually a very considerable advantage when you take PD elite into account.

What frigate? Not a good fit for Hyperion. Tempest? That is the only other frigate that can carry it and I am not sure it is a good fit.

[StuffyEvil]

I mean all shroud weapons are overpriced in OP, abbysal glare is ome of the less overpriced one. Rift lightning versus heavy blaster is far bigger offender. Rift lightning seems like a great weapon, until you see the OP cost.

Rift lightning *is* a good weapon even with the OP cost.. you save like 100 (0.4 effciency x 250 dps) compared to your standard heavy blaster. , you do end up sacrificing a lot of dps but I find it a lot nicer fit on frigate. And the PD tag it have is actually a very considerable advantage when you take PD elite into account.

What frigate? Not a good fit for Hyperion. Tempest? That is the only other frigate that can carry it and I am not sure it is a good fit.

I personally use it on Lumens & Medusas.

[Ripmorld]

What frigate? Not a good fit for Hyperion. Tempest? That is the only other frigate that can carry it and I am not sure it is a good fit.

Hyperion is better off with hungering rifts , but yeah tempest can definitely benefit from rift lightning due to its perculier synergy with PD elite which allows it for a 200 range buff. But even without it giving tempest and efficient high hitstrength weapon can be really beneficial. 

[TheBurningOnes]

Gryphons should've had ECCM as built-in

[Selfcontrol]

I find the Rift Lightning and Abyssal Glare to be more interesting on midline ships than high tech ones imo.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

I've settled on Abyssal Glare being not worth it. Single HIL is a dubious main anti-armor/hull weapon as it is, and here is one doing even less damage at a lot shorter range. The 100-point explosions are a tickle to any shields worth a damn. I don't care about EMP anymore when there's one enemy faction that is just straight up immune to it. I would have picked the Tachyon Lance over Abyssal Glare even if the latter had the same OP cost and flux/sec, and it doesn't.

Guess it's telling that the Eye needs 9 of them with a range boost.

Rift Lightning is more interesting, basically a Pulse Laser on steroids, but that means it's of little interest to AI ships. It also competes with like 5 other good short-range, hard-hitting medium energy weapons for the spot.

[Bungee_man]

From what I see, the abyssal weapons are either extremely situational or not used at all. The fact that they need to be collected by farming a specific out-of-the-way encounter probably doesn't help.

Given that the abyss enemies aren't all that dangerous right now (you can fight their hardest encounter solo with a Radiant, which is not true of the Remnant or Threat), some kind of across-the-board buff might be in order. If it makes them too powerful in player hands, having some kind of negative damage multiplier that increases based on the total fleet OP allocated to their hullmods and weapons could make them more interesting to work with and less grindy to experiment with (since it's decided from the beginning that you won't be using very many of them). The spawners they have already work like this, since there's a cap on how many you can field at once.