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[Bungee_man]

If only ship quality doctrine started putting S-mods into the mix with a high enough investment

Having no heavy industry so your 1/5/1 doctrine fleet of d-modded export junk is s-modded to the gills when

I was thinking something like, instead of hard-capping ship quality rolls at zero D-mods, they could start going into S-mods instead. Like, if the state of your colony and doctrine is such that your ships have a mean of one D-mod, with a standard deviation of one, then there would be a 2% chance of three or more D-mods, a 13% chance of two D-mods, 68% chance of one D-mod, a 13% chance of zero D-mods, and a 2% chance of one or more S-mods.

Adjusting ship quality upwards by enough to amount to one D-mod in the mean would, on average, make every ship one mod better, regardless of where it currently stands. As it is, if your distribution has a mean of zero D-mods, you already have an 85% chance of zero D-mods, and adding another 'one D-mod' worth of ship quality to that zero only improves the combat potential of your patrols by about a tenth of what it would if industry were worse.


As an aside, I noticed that officer quality is a pretty decent proxy for how "good" a faction is. Church is a little bit of an exception, and League is higher than it'd otherwise be by virtue of having a nanoforge that would make more investment into ship quality or quantity somewhat extraneous, but the ones are the card-carrying bad guys, and the five is for the closest thing to a protagonist faction.

5: Hegemony,
3: Persean League
2: Luddic Church, Luddic Path
1: Sindrian Diktat, Lion's Guard, Tri-Tachyon, Pirates

It feels like there are quite a few inconsistencies, there. The ruthless, optimization-obsessed megacorp and the ostentatious but otherwise conventional military junta cares less about martial education and selection than the religious guys fielding converted freighters? The not-Delian-League centered around a world whose chief export is warships and the officers that command them is more quantity-focused than the guys modeled after the Domain, for whom attrition warfare is implied to be standard practice, and who bulk up their fleets with civilian auxiliaries?

[StuffyEvil]

If only ship quality doctrine started putting S-mods into the mix with a high enough investment

Having no heavy industry so your 1/5/1 doctrine fleet of d-modded export junk is s-modded to the gills when

I was thinking something like, instead of hard-capping ship quality rolls at zero D-mods, they could start going into S-mods instead. Like, if the state of your colony and doctrine is such that your ships have a mean of one D-mod, with a standard deviation of one, then there would be a 2% chance of three or more D-mods, a 13% chance of two D-mods, 68% chance of one D-mod, a 13% chance of zero D-mods, and a 2% chance of one or more S-mods.

Adjusting ship quality upwards by enough to amount to one D-mod in the mean would, on average, make every ship one mod better, regardless of where it currently stands. As it is, if your distribution has a mean of zero D-mods, you already have an 85% chance of zero D-mods, and adding another 'one D-mod' worth of ship quality to that zero only improves the combat potential of your patrols by about a tenth of what it would if industry were worse.


As an aside, I noticed that officer quality is a pretty decent proxy for how "good" a faction is. Church is a little bit of an exception, and League is higher than it'd otherwise be by virtue of having a nanoforge that would make more investment into ship quality or quantity somewhat extraneous, but the ones are the card-carrying bad guys, and the five is for the closest thing to a protagonist faction.

5: Hegemony,
3: Persean League
2: Luddic Church, Luddic Path
1: Sindrian Diktat, Lion's Guard, Tri-Tachyon, Pirates

It feels like there are quite a few inconsistencies, there. The ruthless, optimization-obsessed megacorp and the ostentatious but otherwise conventional military junta cares less about martial education and selection than the religious guys fielding converted freighters? The not-Delian-League centered around a world whose chief export is warships and the officers that command them is more quantity-focused than the guys modeled after the Domain, for whom attrition warfare is implied to be standard practice, and who bulk up their fleets with civilian auxiliaries?

I do agree on a surface level, as having Ship Quality actually do something after outfitting an Orbital Works with a Pristine Nanoforge, but honestly I don't think Alex will agree with this for a good reason, and that is Player Colony Custom Production.

Namely, if increasing Ship Quality even further will result in the appearance of S-mods for the generated fleets, then shouldn't the Custom Produced ships also have S-mods (considering that these ships are produced with the Ship Quality at the maximum by default)?

Alex seems to be keen on not allowing the player to be able to obtain S-modded ships besides S-modding ships themselves, as the NPC fleets with S-modded ships won't drop ships with S-mod, with only a single one-time exception (that also has its own caveats).
Or in other words, Alex wants to avoid weird behaviour of "farming" fleets with S-mods, then scuttling S-modded ships from these fleets to obtain bonus EXP.

As such, if the player can produce S-modded ships in Colony Custom Production, then the player can produce something like Atlas en masse each month as an endgame credit sink, then scuttle them to grind Bonus EXP.

I guess to circumvent this, it can be done that Custom Produced ships won't have any S-mods at all, this isn't exactly a clean solution, but it does allow NPC fleets to have S-mods, and it will be interesting to see Tri-Tachyon, who have the ship quality at maximum, to possibly have some S-mods on their fleets to spice things up.

[Doctorhealsgood]

If only ship quality doctrine started putting S-mods into the mix with a high enough investment

Having no heavy industry so your 1/5/1 doctrine fleet of d-modded export junk is s-modded to the gills when

I was thinking something like, instead of hard-capping ship quality rolls at zero D-mods, they could start going into S-mods instead. Like, if the state of your colony and doctrine is such that your ships have a mean of one D-mod, with a standard deviation of one, then there would be a 2% chance of three or more D-mods, a 13% chance of two D-mods, 68% chance of one D-mod, a 13% chance of zero D-mods, and a 2% chance of one or more S-mods.

Adjusting ship quality upwards by enough to amount to one D-mod in the mean would, on average, make every ship one mod better, regardless of where it currently stands. As it is, if your distribution has a mean of zero D-mods, you already have an 85% chance of zero D-mods, and adding another 'one D-mod' worth of ship quality to that zero only improves the combat potential of your patrols by about a tenth of what it would if industry were worse.


As an aside, I noticed that officer quality is a pretty decent proxy for how "good" a faction is. Church is a little bit of an exception, and League is higher than it'd otherwise be by virtue of having a nanoforge that would make more investment into ship quality or quantity somewhat extraneous, but the ones are the card-carrying bad guys, and the five is for the closest thing to a protagonist faction.

5: Hegemony,
3: Persean League
2: Luddic Church, Luddic Path
1: Sindrian Diktat, Lion's Guard, Tri-Tachyon, Pirates

It feels like there are quite a few inconsistencies, there. The ruthless, optimization-obsessed megacorp and the ostentatious but otherwise conventional military junta cares less about martial education and selection than the religious guys fielding converted freighters? The not-Delian-League centered around a world whose chief export is warships and the officers that command them is more quantity-focused than the guys modeled after the Domain, for whom attrition warfare is implied to be standard practice, and who bulk up their fleets with civilian auxiliaries?

I do agree on a surface level, as having Ship Quality actually do something after outfitting an Orbital Works with a Pristine Nanoforge, but honestly I don't think Alex will agree with this for a good reason, and that is Player Colony Custom Production.

Namely, if increasing Ship Quality even further will result in the appearance of S-mods for the generated fleets, then shouldn't the Custom Produced ships also have S-mods (considering that these ships are produced with the Ship Quality at the maximum by default)?

Alex seems to be keen on not allowing the player to be able to obtain S-modded ships besides S-modding ships themselves, as the NPC fleets with S-modded ships won't drop ships with S-mod, with only a single one-time exception (that also has its own caveats).
Or in other words, Alex wants to avoid weird behaviour of "farming" fleets with S-mods, then scuttling S-modded ships from these fleets to obtain bonus EXP.

As such, if the player can produce S-modded ships in Colony Custom Production, then the player can produce something like Atlas en masse each month as an endgame credit sink, then scuttle them to grind Bonus EXP.

I guess to circumvent this, it can be done that Custom Produced ships won't have any S-mods at all, this isn't exactly a clean solution, but it does allow NPC fleets to have S-mods, and it will be interesting to see Tri-Tachyon, who have the ship quality at maximum, to possibly have some S-mods on their fleets to spice things up.

I am pretty sure i haven't seen a non player S-modded ship being salvaged with their mods in ages so i am pretty sure they just get wiped of them

[StuffyEvil]

I am pretty sure i haven't seen a non player S-modded ship being salvaged with their mods in ages so i am pretty sure they just get wiped of them

Yeah, I think so too, probably by Alex to prevent players from looking for bounties on mercenary fleets with S-mods.

[Bungee_man]

I guess to circumvent this, it can be done that Custom Produced ships won't have any S-mods at all, this isn't exactly a clean solution, but it does allow NPC fleets to have S-mods, and it will be interesting to see Tri-Tachyon, who have the ship quality at maximum, to possibly have some S-mods on their fleets to spice things up.

Exactly my line of thinking.

[Doctorhealsgood]

I am pretty sure i haven't seen a non player S-modded ship being salvaged with their mods in ages so i am pretty sure they just get wiped of them

Yeah, I think so too, probably by Alex to prevent players from looking for bounties on mercenary fleets with S-mods.

If my memory doesn't fail me it is actually because it was frustrating to find a ship you wanted to get but it was gimped because it had the wrong S-mods for the build you had in mind.

[Bungee_man]

If my memory doesn't fail me it is actually because it was frustrating to find a ship you wanted to get but it was gimped because it had the wrong S-mods for the build you had in mind.

Personally, I think it'd be fun to have S-modded (though suboptimal) ships as a reward for those hard fights. It's encouragement to use ships you might not otherwise use, and it makes the somewhat underused ship salvaging mechanic (now that there are tons of ways to get desired ships without any D-mods) more active. Having recovered S-modded ships just not offer bonus EXP when lost would solve the issue, I think, and IIRC Nexerelin does that.

Imagine if hunting down the League armada in the blockade early on happened to yield a Pegasus with an S-mod. Pretty strong incentive to adopt it as a flagship, at least for a while. Ditto a Gryphon or Eagle with the same - the player would give them a shot, even if it didn't perfectly line up with what they thought they'd buy next. Likewise, the Tri-Tachyon mercenaries would feel suitably rewarding for the challenge they offer - a trophy ship with a reminder of a tough fight and a cool story behind it.

[Doctorhealsgood]

If my memory doesn't fail me it is actually because it was frustrating to find a ship you wanted to get but it was gimped because it had the wrong S-mods for the build you had in mind.

Personally, I think it'd be fun to have S-modded (though suboptimal) ships as a reward for those hard fights. It's encouragement to use ships you might not otherwise use, and it makes the somewhat underused ship salvaging mechanic (now that there are tons of ways to get desired ships without any D-mods) more active. Having recovered S-modded ships just not offer bonus EXP when lost would solve the issue, I think, and IIRC Nexerelin does that.

Imagine if hunting down the League armada in the blockade early on happened to yield a Pegasus with an S-mod. Pretty strong incentive to adopt it as a flagship, at least for a while. Ditto a Gryphon or Eagle with the same - the player would give them a shot, even if it didn't perfectly line up with what they thought they'd buy next. Likewise, the Tri-Tachyon mercenaries would feel suitably rewarding for the challenge they offer - a trophy ship with a reminder of a tough fight and a cool story behind it.

I mean it isn't like it was a complete dealbreaker for me. It's free S-mods and S-modded ships are considerably rarer than normal ones so the odds of finding a blank slate for you use are higher.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

If my memory doesn't fail me it is actually because it was frustrating to find a ship you wanted to get but it was gimped because it had the wrong S-mods for the build you had in mind.

Which again circles back to the issue of S/D-mods being either unremovable or unaddable(for Derelict Ops)

[sycspysycspy]

• Reworked planet intel list and filter
  • Planet list:
    • Fits a few more rows on the screen
    • Removed some mostly-useless columns; added number of stable locations in system
    • Faster transitions when moving to map
    • Clicking on the location display in the row goes directly to map instead of opening star system details
    • Shows "Orbital Solar Array" (and potentially other relevant conditions) that it didn't before
  • Planet filter allows filtering the planet list by:
    • Type (star/gas giant/planet)
    • Populated/claimed/unclaimed
    • Surveyed/not surveyed
    • Maximum hazard level
    • Minimum number of stable locations in the system (including those already in use)
    • Required minimum level of resources (ore/transplutonic ore/volatiles/organics/farmland/ruins)
    • Required absence of resources
    • Ability to use specific colony items on planet
      • Requires player to be aware of colony item; this persists across saves
    • Presence of Orbital Solar Array
    • Being in range of a Coronal Hypershunt or Cryosleeper
  • Centered at higher resolutions instead of being left-aligned
  • Takes advantage of a bit of extra space at higher resolutions
• Minor sprucing up of the intel Factions tab:
  • Centered at higher resolutions
  • Fixed some UI element alignment issues
  • Added dark background/border around faction description text
  • Remembers previously selected faction when re-opening screen
• When opening the map via Tab, it will always center around the player's location
• Historian blueprint intel starts out marked "important"
• Luddic Majority status is updated as soon as a conflicting industry is queued, if it's first in queue
• Remote Survey ability: reworked to indicate highest-rated planet in the system and give preliminary survey data and an estimate of its class

If you could include more infomations such as tech mining data (multiplier and if it has been mined before), gate information and distance to the core world, starsearcher(https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=27210.0)  could just cease to exist.

[Doctorhealsgood]

If my memory doesn't fail me it is actually because it was frustrating to find a ship you wanted to get but it was gimped because it had the wrong S-mods for the build you had in mind.

Which again circles back to the issue of S/D-mods being either unremovable or unaddable(for Derelict Ops)

minmaxing D-Mods for Derelict ops is too much of a pain for me to care about that personally.

[Sundog]

Looks like a slew of great improvements, as always, especially with regard to QoL!

Pressing "Take all" a second time will now take any over-capacity fuel when looting/salvaging

Thanks for this, in particular! It'll allow me to clean up some jank with one of my mods

getActuallyAllWeaponSpecs()

Wonderful 

[Killer of Fate]

If my memory doesn't fail me it is actually because it was frustrating to find a ship you wanted to get but it was gimped because it had the wrong S-mods for the build you had in mind.

Which again circles back to the issue of S/D-mods being either unremovable or unaddable(for Derelict Ops)

minmaxing D-Mods for Derelict ops is too much of a pain for me to care about that personally.

I would double the benefit but cap the skill at 3 d-mods... Just to make it more inviting. But people have developed a whole artistry around this. So, guess keep it as is...

[Doctorhealsgood]

I mean i like derelict ops but i just get the D-mods and shrug.

[Bungee_man]

Which again circles back to the issue of S/D-mods being either unremovable or unaddable(for Derelict Ops)

Yeah, it's a bit of a tangent, but being able to pick D-mods somehow for DO would make it a lot smoother. As it is, it's really, really powerful if you put in 10 hours to get the right D-mod set and so-so otherwise, which is the kind of thing the dev team (rightly) tries to avoid.

I'd implement it as an option when salvage is clicked, where you can pick a D-mod to apply and get some supplies back. Maybe list it as salvaging the parts related to making a given thing work.