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[PixiCode]

Was the Heron AI not using the Targeting Feed system if Defensive Targetting Array is installed bug/behavior fixed or changed? Would be neat to try out funny BattleHeron builds.

[AdamLegend]

Do the "powerful system defense fleets" respawn?
For the historian avoiding targeting already discovered derelicts, what happens if you've already found everything?

I hope they respawn! It would be a shame if we defeat them once and they are never seen again

[Bungee_man]

Do the "powerful system defense fleets" respawn?
For the historian avoiding targeting already discovered derelicts, what happens if you've already found everything?

I hope they respawn! It would be a shame if we defeat them once and they are never seen again

I think it was confirmed that they do. I hope they're good enough to break up the ordo meta somewhat - Remnants are cool and everything, but it'll be interesting to see if what works against them has limitations against, say, a min-maxed Hegemony fleet.

[SCC]

ordo meta

lol

which is the kind of thing the dev team (rightly) tries to avoid.

Well, with DO, it's mostly trying to let you ignore what d-mods you get and overwhelm the enemy with trash, instead of hand-picking d-mods with cheats or just lots and lots of save scumming which is just tedious, which is why you don't get to pick your d-mods.

[Bungee_man]

Well, with DO, it's mostly trying to let you ignore what d-mods you get and overwhelm the enemy with trash, instead of hand-picking d-mods with cheats or just lots and lots of save scumming which is just tedious, which is why you don't get to pick your d-mods.

That's just it. It's better to handpick D-mods, so the tedious approach is also the most powerful. You lose out by not doing it. That's a design issue.

[PixiCode]

My only real d-mod gripe is that it’s very encourages to get d-mods on your ships but if you have a ship you want to put d-mods onto, you have to blow it up and you can only do so during combat.

That’s kinda goofy. Min-maxing which d-mods you get isn’t that much of a design issue imo, it’s not ideal since it does kinda encourage something very tedious, but it’s not necessary to get almost all the value you expect out of derelict operations.

[Killer of Fate]

My only real d-mod gripe is that it’s very encourages to get d-mods on your ships but if you have a ship you want to put d-mods onto, you have to blow it up and you can only do so during combat.

That’s kinda goofy. Min-maxing which d-mods you get isn’t that much of a design issue imo, it’s not ideal since it does kinda encourage something very tedious, but it’s not necessary to get almost all the value you expect out of derelict operations.

this is more of a gripe with average combat encounters in the game not being very threatening

I mean what's the alternative? Being able to blow up your own ship to earn a d-mod?

[PixiCode]

this is more of a gripe with average combat encounters in the game not being very threatening

I mean what's the alternative? Being able to blow up your own ship to earn a d-mod?

No. D-mods appearing are random (do you get 1? 2? Maybe even 0?) and actually somewhat rare if you are using a rugged construction hullmod ship. In order for my gripe about d-mods to be ‘more of a gripe about average combat encounters,’ this means you’re saying the player should expect to have all of their ships be destroyed and recovered somewhere between 2-6 times, each. I don’t really know how long it would take to get 5 dmods per ship, especially since you can try to find bad quality ships to salvage or buy from out there in the wild.

Searching for a broken up ship, fair enough. Expecting to constantly take losses? That doesn’t sound normal to me.

There’s several potential ways to be an alternative for d-mod generation.

Make Derelict Ops unlock a ‘jury rig’ hullmod which becomes a random d-mod at the resolution of your next battle it is deployed in.

Add a market feature of some salvaging company that specifically trades in junk ships, maybe you have to trade in a pristine ship to do so.

Make a market feature of some company that performs research on ships by shooting them at a shooting range. They could pay you to shoot your ship up, giving it random dmods. This was even made into a mod on the mod index.

I’m sure there’s other ways too.

[Toxcity]

It really feels like salvaging as a way to get good value out of derelict ops is being intentionally ignored here, both in the case of choosing d-mods or giving them to your existing ships. In either case it just feels like mechanics meant to allow you to minmax d-ops in a way that creates more balance issues (like cheap hightech ships with irrelevant d-mods).

[Alex]

My take on DO is that it's kind of a skill for people that want to be less OCD about things, if that makes sense? There are definitely a few issues that crop up if you try to wring the most possible benefit out of it, and yeah, that's not ideal, but fundamentally it's just another version of "you don't care about d-mods very much and can just do whatever".

E.G. you don't actually *need* to put 5 d-mods on any of your ships, because if they don't have them, they're going to perform better anyway, so it's fine - basically any number of d-mods from 0 to 5 is not much of an issue, if you have this skill. You're not getting more out of the *ship* if it has 5 d-mods. You are getting more out of the *skill* in that case but - assuming the d-mod discount is vaguely balanced - your fleet power remains more or less the same.

[PixiCode]

I'm not sure that take makes very much sense to me. If it was true that it doesn't matter if a ship has anywhere from 0 to 5 d-mods when you take Derelict Operations, that gives the impression the skill is a waste of skill points for any reason besides "fixing that OCD," which I thought Hull Restoration existed for. Derelict Operations gave me the impression it was for the 'junk salvager' sort of aesthetic. Junkyard dog aesthetic. Stuff like that. But whatever it's supposed to be envisioned by dev team is what it is at the end of the day.

[Alex]

I get what you're saying, yeah. To me the power from this - and also from HR - comes from being able to absorb losses and take on more challenging fights that way. You can go from "a successful fight is where I've taken minimal losses, and getting a d-mod on a valuable ship is a potential disaster" to "you can lose like a third of your fleet and it's a solid win". The lower-tier skills can help with this, too, especially Field Repairs. So it's very much a "junk salvage" feel, still, just one that doesn't at all require full d-mods on everything!

[TK3600]

Even without DO, some D mod buffs logistics with minimal effect. It may as well be buffs.

[Bungee_man]

I get what you're saying, yeah. To me the power from this - and also from HR - comes from being able to absorb losses and take on more challenging fights that way. You can go from "a successful fight is where I've taken minimal losses, and getting a d-mod on a valuable ship is a potential disaster" to "you can lose like a third of your fleet and it's a solid win". The lower-tier skills can help with this, too, especially Field Repairs. So it's very much a "junk salvage" feel, still, just one that doesn't at all require full d-mods on everything!

I like the idea of that, where the skill's job is to make being concerned with D-mods a non-factor. I do think that being hyper-conscious of the D-mods you have makes for a much more powerful fleet, though - some D-mods hardly do anything, and an extra Onslaught or Executor with virtually no drawbacks is a major advantage beyond what's offered by almost any other skill, while other D-mods absolutely wreck certain ships' effectiveness and have to be avoided, even with the lower DP.

Maybe it's better to take the opposite tack as our prior suggestions, though, and neutralize the benefit of the tedious approach rather than the tediousness. A naive solution (which I'm not advocating) would be to have it randomize D-mods before each battle to prevent minmaxing.

[Doctorhealsgood]

I get what you're saying, yeah. To me the power from this - and also from HR - comes from being able to absorb losses and take on more challenging fights that way. You can go from "a successful fight is where I've taken minimal losses, and getting a d-mod on a valuable ship is a potential disaster" to "you can lose like a third of your fleet and it's a solid win". The lower-tier skills can help with this, too, especially Field Repairs. So it's very much a "junk salvage" feel, still, just one that doesn't at all require full d-mods on everything!

I like the idea of that, where the skill's job is to make being concerned with D-mods a non-factor. I do think that being hyper-conscious of the D-mods you have makes for a much more powerful fleet, though - some D-mods hardly do anything, and an extra Onslaught or Executor with virtually no drawbacks is a major advantage beyond what's offered by almost any other skill, while other D-mods absolutely wreck certain ships' effectiveness and have to be avoided, even with the lower DP.

Maybe it's better to take the opposite tack as our prior suggestions, though, and neutralize the benefit of the tedious approach rather than the tediousness. A naive solution (which I'm not advocating) would be to have it randomize D-mods before each battle to prevent minmaxing.

I am going to lose it if my invictus suddenly needs like a thousand more crew