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[Talgo]

Because that's a massive overcorrection that would neuter the Threat entirely, which is why in my own post I said any such reward mechanic shouldn't be so severe. A brief disable effect would reward you for killing the Overseer with a brief window to back off, vent flux, or maybe press the attack, but you would still have to go through the other ships one way or another. If the Overseer's death throes just killed surrounding Threat units outright, combating Threat becomes a simple game of killing Overseers and ignoring their escorts because they'll die anyway.

[Doctorhealsgood]

a suggestion that comes to mind is maybe destroying an overseer could turn the energy lash against other threat units, zapping like 2-3 nearby units with an absurd amount of emp (so that it breaches even their high emp resistance)

this is a good idea...
the issue is that Threat units are immune to EMP and take reduced damage to weapons and engines. Maybe instead of EMP it should just damage them... Or makes one slower and makes its AI timid. Evil reverse... Energy lash. More evil... 100% more evil per evil

EMP works though

[Killer of Fate]

a suggestion that comes to mind is maybe destroying an overseer could turn the energy lash against other threat units, zapping like 2-3 nearby units with an absurd amount of emp (so that it breaches even their high emp resistance)

this is a good idea...
the issue is that Threat units are immune to EMP and take reduced damage to weapons and engines. Maybe instead of EMP it should just damage them... Or makes one slower and makes its AI timid. Evil reverse... Energy lash. More evil... 100% more evil per evil

EMP works though

have u tried claws?

[Firestone]

a suggestion that comes to mind is maybe destroying an overseer could turn the energy lash against other threat units, zapping like 2-3 nearby units with an absurd amount of emp (so that it breaches even their high emp resistance)

this is a good idea...
the issue is that Threat units are immune to EMP and take reduced damage to weapons and engines. Maybe instead of EMP it should just damage them... Or makes one slower and makes its AI timid. Evil reverse... Energy lash. More evil... 100% more evil per evil

EMP works though

have u tried claws?

The hull mode "threat hull" reduces EMP by 50% and reduce damage to weapon and engine by 50%, I did tried to use motors to disable an assault unit and I see several hint of weapons becoming offline but it was not like what happen to normal ships. At least they are not equipped with a Resistant Flux Conduits.

[Ripmorld]

Playing around with shouded thunderhead, and I find myself really liking the cruiser and capital version. I can definitely feel the rework of it. The capital version is very good even on lowtech ships if you play around the flux dissipation well. Cruiser version is mostly for aurora which can run pesudoparticle jet and give it a lot more dps than its amount can allow.

The rework is definitely needed , and most of it is very well done. I can see myself using thunderhead a lot more. Yet there is still an issue being that frigate/destroyer level thunderhead are just not in parallel value as with the capital and cruiser ones.

• Hitstrength matters a lot on the low end , 200/300 are not decent enough hitstrength to punch through heavier residues
• Frigate and destoyers in general have less mounts and flux stats to use weapon that can consistantly prock thunderhead, unlike capital and cruiser
• Whilst not being a limited resource , thunderhead is still very difficult to acquire in bulk , which means its much better off to just use it on a capital than a frigate because its just more grind for something that have less power

So I propose the following changes to hopefully even out the playing field

• All level of thunderhead should have the same amount of hitstrength, this will negate the primary downside of frigate/destoyer thunderhead being a lot weaker
• Different clamped prock rate, this will allow you to fine tune the expected power so that frigate/destroyer spam don't go out of hand unexpectedly

[Ripmorld]

Also just thought of a fun shouded lens s mod effect
"During active vent the strike frequency is increased by 50%"

[Alex]

Thank you for the feedback!

Also just thought of a fun shouded lens s mod effect
"During active vent the strike frequency is increased by 50%"

Ok that IS really fun, making a note about that one!

[Doctorhealsgood]

ah nice since the price drop was kinda wondering if the lenses would get one

[Doctorhealsgood]

Playing around with shouded thunderhead, and I find myself really liking the cruiser and capital version. I can definitely feel the rework of it. The capital version is very good even on lowtech ships if you play around the flux dissipation well. Cruiser version is mostly for aurora which can run pesudoparticle jet and give it a lot more dps than its amount can allow.

The rework is definitely needed , and most of it is very well done. I can see myself using thunderhead a lot more. Yet there is still an issue being that frigate/destroyer level thunderhead are just not in parallel value as with the capital and cruiser ones.

• Hitstrength matters a lot on the low end , 200/300 are not decent enough hitstrength to punch through heavier residues
• Frigate and destoyers in general have less mounts and flux stats to use weapon that can consistantly prock thunderhead, unlike capital and cruiser
• Whilst not being a limited resource , thunderhead is still very difficult to acquire in bulk , which means its much better off to just use it on a capital than a frigate because its just more grind for something that have less power

So I propose the following changes to hopefully even out the playing field

• All level of thunderhead should have the same amount of hitstrength, this will negate the primary downside of frigate/destoyer thunderhead being a lot weaker
• Different clamped prock rate, this will allow you to fine tune the expected power so that frigate/destroyer spam don't go out of hand unexpectedly

If you wanna proc thunderhead on frigates/destroyers why not use light assault gun

[Alex]

For the sake of clarity, btw - at this point I'm hoping that RC8 is the final hotfix for 0.98a. Basically unless there's some sort of common crash (which seems increasingly unlikely given how long it's been out, but you never know) then chances are RC8 is the one. (Whether there'll be a .1 for this one is, of course, a different question.)

[StuffyEvil]

For the sake of clarity, btw - at this point I'm hoping that RC8 is the final hotfix for 0.98a. Basically unless there's some sort of common crash (which seems increasingly unlikely given how long it's been out, but you never know) then chances are RC8 is the one. (Whether there'll be a .1 for this one is, of course, a different question.)

Looking forward to it then, especially that one fix that will make it so that arrows stuff in the map view won't tank FPS.

[Chumbosity]

If you wanna proc thunderhead on frigates/destroyers why not use light assault gun

Doesn't have the rate of fire to make effective use of Thunderhead, unfortunately. Uses a ton of flux too. I believe Thunderhead proc chance caps out at 100 hits per 5 seconds (or 20 hits per second) for an average of 1.5 procs per second. This works quite well when you have something like an Autopulse which gets you halfway there on its own, but smaller ships typically have a harder time getting the procs due to smaller mounts, and much less benefit from those procs. A single LAG only gets you a fifth of the way there to 20 hits per 5, and you spend 160 flux per second to do that.

If you were to stack 5 LAGs to get up to the maximum Thunderhead rate on a frigate - a Lasher can do this, and AAF makes it much easier - that's 800 flux you're spending for 800 explosive DPS and (on average) 300 energy DPS. Even then it's among the better options for small ballistics, as the better weapons in that slot are either much harder to come by (Minipulser), have vastly inferior range (Vulcans, LMGs, LDMGs), or have even worse rate of fire (everything else).

[Ripmorld]

If you wanna proc thunderhead on frigates/destroyers why not use light assault gun

• not all frigate can mount lac
• its pretty flux expensive to use even without accounting for the flux incurred by thunderhead itself
• It doesn't actually prock as well since its like only 4 hits persecond , if you want to proc well you use PD elite vulcan which maxes it out at 20 hits per second

But like , I just think its a better idea to normalize all hitstrength across the broad to 500 , but say have frigate proc chance clamped at 2/5*50% which is 20%. So one the dps output is unchanged, and two its easier to reach cap since it have less mounts.

[djrvywfbjr]

Frigates get better DPS/OP on Thunderhead due to how it scales, and hitstrength matters a lot less because they'll mostly be fighting other frigates. Capitals, however, basically can't use it because it's too flux inefficient for already flux starved lowtech, and hightech doesn't have great weapons to get high hit rate with (except, maybe, PPJ Nova, but every time I try some outlandish build like this it ends up unviable). So far the only build I've seen anyone make that performs well is HSA elite PD Scarab.

[Doctorhealsgood]

Ah silly me. Needler is probably better for triggering thunderhead