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Author Topic: Starfarer 0.53a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 345548 times)

Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #555 on: July 23, 2012, 02:35:18 PM »

I'm curious: since apparently the mechanics of phasing are editable like other ship systems, is it possible to change the key bindings for its (or any other system's, for that matter) activation? If so, I'm assuming the choices would only be the F key or right mouse button, but that's all I'm interested in.

Also, if it the above is possible, then would this allow for a ship to have two systems, with one system bound to the right mouse button, and the other bound to the F key?

You can change the key bindings for "use shields" and "use system", but I'm not sure if that's quite what you're asking.

A ship can't have two systems unless one of them is phase-cloak-instead-of-shields, though. The way it's specified is there's a "system" field in ship_data.csv that has the proper system, and you set the shieldType field to PHASE for phase ships. Really, shieldType ought to be renamed to "defenseType".
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Psiyon

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #556 on: July 23, 2012, 02:49:49 PM »

A ship can't have two systems unless one of them is phase-cloak-instead-of-shields, though. The way it's specified is there's a "system" field in ship_data.csv that has the proper system, and you set the shieldType field to PHASE for phase ships. Really, shieldType ought to be renamed to "defenseType".
Ah, I see. I was under the assumption that the ship's shieldType field on phase ships would be set to "NONE", and that the phase ability was simply a ship system that was activated by the right mouse button, rather than the F key. Anyway, thanks, that answers my question.
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Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #557 on: July 23, 2012, 06:52:32 PM »

The lance is only a good sniper weapon because ships wouldn't arm shields when too far away from a lance turret, with that fix it should resolve some issues.

Wrong again. The Lance's enormous burst damage currently overloads the shields of all fighters and most (if not all) mid- and low-tech frigates.


Let's see:

Lance Burst Damage:  1500 + 750 EMP 
Total Damage to shields:  1500


Fighters:

Dagger Flux Capacity:  600 ( Efficiency .6 ) = 1000

Longbow Flux Capacity:  600 ( Efficiency .6 ) = 1000

Trident Flux Capacity:  1000 ( Efficiency .6 ) = 1666.6

Xyphos Flux Capacity:  1000 ( Efficiency .6 ) = 1666.6




Frigates:
Brawler Flux Capacity: 2750 ( Efficiency .8 ) = 3437.5 Total Damage Absorption.

Dram Flux Capacity:  1500 ( Efficiency 1.2 ) = 1250 Total Damage Absorption.

Hyperion Flux Capacity:  3300 ( Efficiency .6 ) = 5500 Total Damage Absorption.

Lasher Flux Capacity:  2100 ( Efficiency 1.0 ) = 2100 Total Damage Absorption.

Omen Flux Capacity:  2200 ( Efficiency .4 ) = 5500

Shuttle Flux Capacity:  1600 ( Efficiency .8 ) = 2000

Tempest Flux Capacity:  2500 ( Efficiency .8 ) = 3125

Vigilance Flux Capacity:  1900 ( Efficiency .8 ) = 2375

Wolf Flux Capacity:  2250 ( Efficiency .8 ) = 2812.5



I believe you are quite wrong.

I didn't say it did it in one shot. Typically it's two shots, since the refire rate is sufficient that most frigates cannot dissipate enough soft flux in time for the second shot to force the shields down. The fighters will all almost certainly die in two shots. Once the shields go down on frigates, it's game over, as the massive EMP will knock everything out and shot number three is the finisher.

Keep in mind that this is done at a range where absolutely nothing short of Pilums or another Lance has any hope of firing back. Taking out ships in two or three perfectly accurate shots from halfway across the map is hilariously broken... and unshielded fighter wings (the vast majority) suffer even more, losing one or two members per lance shot.



Ships colored in blue can survive two shots, you also forget that lances require a spotter to be effective.  I see the lance as an energy artillery gun, weak in short range or against prepared, good otherwise.  What I don't quite like is that people are complaining that an artillery weapon does too much damage when it's very weak up close and relies on other ships to operate effectively.  I also don't believe that the correct solution to a modestly overpowered weapon is to nerf it to the point where no one will want to use it.  It sounds a little too close to TF2 and their tendency to nerf good weapons into the ground because people whine and moan, like the tomislav from tf2 was nerfed into yet another gimp gun for the heavy, like the other 2 it already has.  I seriously want a weapon that's worth using next to the auto-pulse.  Right now there's not any good energy weapon besides for the lance that can compete with the autopulse.  I don't believe the solution is to make everything equally as impotent to induce some semblance of 'balance'.  What irks me the most is people complaining about a gun being really good at what it's supposed to be good at.  Back to the Tomislav again, people complained that a gun who penalizes damage and increases deployment speed was too powerful because it increases deployment speed.  Frankly I see the lance going down the same path already.  Incredibly flux inefficient, subpar damage, soft flux, horrendous OP cost, with these changes it'll be just another HIL, flashy but ultimately useless and impractical.
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #558 on: July 23, 2012, 07:24:23 PM »

@JamesRaynor: It kind of feels like you're picking away at technicalities in Temjin's post without addressing the larger point.

I can't help but wonder if you've tried the lance in earnest in terms of building a fleet around it - otherwise, I seriously doubt you'd call it "modestly overpowered". Whether it takes 2 or 3 or even 4 shots to take out a frigate is academic. The point is that a lance-heavy fleet with a few spotters dominates absolutely anything else right now - generally, with no losses. If you feel that this is fine, we'll just have to agree to disagree :)

I'd say - based on some playtesting - that it's "modestly overpowered" after these changes.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 07:45:37 PM by Alex »
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Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #559 on: July 23, 2012, 08:32:37 PM »

@JamesRaynor: It kind of feels like you're picking away at technicalities in Temjin's post without addressing the larger point.

I can't help but wonder if you've tried the lance in earnest in terms of building a fleet around it - otherwise, I seriously doubt you'd call it "modestly overpowered". Whether it takes 2 or 3 or even 4 shots to take out a frigate is academic. The point is that a lance-heavy fleet with a few spotters dominates absolutely anything else right now - generally, with no losses. If you feel that this is fine, we'll just have to agree to disagree :)

I'd say - based on some playtesting - that it's "modestly overpowered" after these changes.


Usually it involves a lot of friendly fire from the lances, it also quires a TON of FP to field lance craft.
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arcibalde

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #560 on: July 24, 2012, 12:49:46 AM »

Much of weapon balancing depend on how much of specific weapon is represented in-game and how much of it is available to player.
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Upgradecap

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #561 on: July 24, 2012, 01:50:14 AM »

I never got my question answered, so let me re-quote it :)
Wait, is it possible then to create a phase ship that has an optical cloak aswell? (To make the ship more invisible :))


Bear in mind that I'd like offical answer on this :)

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mendonca

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #562 on: July 24, 2012, 05:06:07 AM »

I never got my question answered, so let me re-quote it :)
Wait, is it possible then to create a phase ship that has an optical cloak aswell? (To make the ship more invisible :))


Bear in mind that I'd like offical answer on this :)



I think this has been answered in a round-about sort of way by the devs already.

Or if you were to phrase the question differently, and get the answer you seek: "how will the AI react to 'partially visible' ships?"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no planned mechanism for 'partially visible' ships - that concept was thrown out with the first iterations of the phasing design. Basically it can't work the way it needs to work in an intuitive manner for both the AI and the player.
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Valiant19

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #563 on: July 24, 2012, 05:09:34 AM »

I never got my question answered, so let me re-quote it :)
Wait, is it possible then to create a phase ship that has an optical cloak aswell? (To make the ship more invisible :))


Bear in mind that I'd like offical answer on this :)



Well...if we're talking theoretically and asking "Is it possible within the confines of the system?", then the answer would be sort of.  If the AI were programmed to not recognize ships that had an optical cloak activated in a system slot, then having Optical Cloak as a system on a ship that uses Phase Cloaking instead of shields would be possible.

EDIT: I can't stress enough that Alex has said that he is not planning on adding any sort of optical cloaking to the game.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 05:11:32 AM by Valiant19 »
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Temjin

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #564 on: July 24, 2012, 06:32:16 AM »

Ships colored in blue can survive two shots, you also forget that lances require a spotter to be effective.  I see the lance as an energy artillery gun, weak in short range or against prepared, good otherwise.  What I don't quite like is that people are complaining that an artillery weapon does too much damage when it's very weak up close and relies on other ships to operate effectively.  I also don't believe that the correct solution to a modestly overpowered weapon is to nerf it to the point where no one will want to use it.  It sounds a little too close to TF2 and their tendency to nerf good weapons into the ground because people whine and moan, like the tomislav from tf2 was nerfed into yet another gimp gun for the heavy, like the other 2 it already has.  I seriously want a weapon that's worth using next to the auto-pulse.  Right now there's not any good energy weapon besides for the lance that can compete with the autopulse.  I don't believe the solution is to make everything equally as impotent to induce some semblance of 'balance'.  What irks me the most is people complaining about a gun being really good at what it's supposed to be good at.  Back to the Tomislav again, people complained that a gun who penalizes damage and increases deployment speed was too powerful because it increases deployment speed.  Frankly I see the lance going down the same path already.  Incredibly flux inefficient, subpar damage, soft flux, horrendous OP cost, with these changes it'll be just another HIL, flashy but ultimately useless and impractical.

The problem is, all it takes is a wing or two of wasps (the fastest fighters in the game) to spot, since fighters are immune to Lance friendly fire. Then, anything that shows its face at the capture points or wherever the Wasps are situated takes two or three concentrated Lance shots at once. That's enough to completely neutralize anything fast enough to make it to the capture point, if not destroy it outright. This immediately cedes map control and allowing you to bring in more ships that travel faster and have longer range. Four or more lances brought to bear will cripple anything short of a Paragon with Hardened Shields and maxed venting in short order.

I am speaking not from a theorycrafting perspective, but from many dozens of hours of experience.
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #565 on: July 24, 2012, 07:44:38 AM »

Right, no optical cloaking as far as the AI is concerned. Which is part of the reason of why there isn't any, so it's not the kind thing you could just "throw in".

I've really got to take a look at making the AI itself moddable, though. It's going to be a fair bit of work, but that's something I'd really like to do at some point. Hopefully no hitherto-unseen barrier presents itself.
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Upgradecap

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #566 on: July 24, 2012, 09:51:08 AM »

Right, no optical cloaking as far as the AI is concerned. Which is part of the reason of why there isn't any, so it's not the kind thing you could just "throw in".

I've really got to take a look at making the AI itself moddable, though. It's going to be a fair bit of work, but that's something I'd really like to do at some point. Hopefully no hitherto-unseen barrier presents itself.

Yay! I am a bit sad that there won't be any optical cloak :(

Anyways, can it be modded in? :D Yes, i'm aware the AI is possible to exploit this somewhat. :/
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #567 on: July 24, 2012, 09:52:11 AM »

Yes, the transparency level on the phase cloak is configurable.
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K-64

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #568 on: July 24, 2012, 10:44:19 AM »

So for the editing/adding of new systems, is there a new file type (.system?) or is it done in the ship file itself (Like system type: Overthrust, magnitude: xyz, recharge: abc)?
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #569 on: July 24, 2012, 10:53:36 AM »

There's a .system file for each system, along with an optional script (in Java) for any ship stat modification the system needs to do. The latter works the same way a hull mod does now.
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