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Author Topic: Starfarer 0.53a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 368035 times)

Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #465 on: July 16, 2012, 12:45:25 PM »

I have always viewed the Lance as a support weapon due to it's range, I think you should keep the range but instead of doing any damage it should be straight up EM damage. This would give the Lance a distinct role, a long range laser meant for helping front line fighters by disabling ship systems, This would also make the Lance useless against shields, but very handy when hitting heavily armed targets. Oh and it shouldn't be capable of hitting fighters.

You know, I actually considered these very two ideas :) Pure EMP damage for the lance could work - just not sure that it *feels* right for it to do no lasting damage at all. Still, the damage changes move it towards that, and it may move further in that direction still.

As far as not hitting fighters: Balance-wise, it might be a workable solution - but it's one more thing to explain, and one more thing to be confused by as a new player (and the AI would be confused by it too). I'd rather look for solutions that don't create exceptions to rules, first.
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neonesis

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #466 on: July 16, 2012, 01:06:04 PM »

I like how nobody seems to notice my diagnostic post about Phase Charge Launcher and it's massive power :) JK.

On tachyon lance - it seems to me that EMP-only damage in anything but Salamanders is rubbish, because of shields. With such range, no other weapons will be capable of taking the shields down, so the Lance will do nothing.

The only chance is that your fighters will help, but that means you have to deploy Broadswords specifically for this purpose.

And it definitely should hit fighters, it would be simply stupid if it didn't. Reasonable, maybe, for balance, but really?
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #467 on: July 16, 2012, 01:19:34 PM »

I like how nobody seems to notice my diagnostic post about Phase Charge Launcher and it's massive power :) JK.

Oh, I noticed :) I was wondering how long it'd take someone to notice how ridiculously, brokenly overpowered the Phase Charge Launcher is... but that "Phase" bit in the name did wonders for throwing the scent off the trail.
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sdmike1

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #468 on: July 16, 2012, 01:22:38 PM »

I have now started to build an entire fleet based on this

neonesis

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #469 on: July 16, 2012, 02:13:29 PM »

I have now started to build an entire fleet based on this

On the sidenote, I actually did the same test with Vigilance-class frigate, armed with one Phase Charge Launcher - it required much more planning as to where shoot charges, but it was still capable of taking down entire simulation fighter fleet :>
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Psycho Society

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #470 on: July 16, 2012, 02:59:22 PM »

The reason phase ships aren't invisible is because that would be too severe a disruption for game balance. Making them partially invisible would only force the player to constantly pause and scan the screen for phase cloaked ships, which would be frustrating as hell and wouldn't add a single thing to the game. What we have now is the best option.
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YAZF

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #471 on: July 16, 2012, 07:15:19 PM »

That sorta contradicts the whole idea that the flux is the limiting factor for ships in phase.

I dont think so. If you choose to use those weapons while in phase you are invincible but you reach your flux limit much faster. So you can be in phase longer which not attacking, or attack but stay phased shorter.
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Dear Alex,
There should be a battlestation/star fortress fight in the main menu mission mode.  :)

Okim

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #472 on: July 17, 2012, 04:51:44 AM »

I remember the fun i and my brother had when one of us was flying an Ilwrathi dragon in star control... Especially when you both can`t see that cloaked vessel.

Prediction fire based on asteroids changing their trajectory, incidental collisions with planets, fire breath fired on deduction based on zoom level - oh man, it was so damn cool! :)

intothewildblueyonder

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #473 on: July 17, 2012, 05:23:43 PM »

What happens if a ship with launch bays phases with fighters on-board?
   - I know this has been mentioned but will there be a way for you to tell fighters to say on board until released (This could be done with ship systems, but then you lose a different ship system)

I didn't quite understand: does the phase ability replace shield and a ship system; or if a ship can phase can it have a ship system as well, e.g. ship can phase and have drones or ship can phase and has burn drive

And imagine escaping with phase ships will not be too challenging will this be an issue for gameplay (one side can escape too easily; can lead to such things as an impossible to catch fleet or impossible to finish off fleet)
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YAZF

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #474 on: July 17, 2012, 09:06:22 PM »

I'm guessing ships with phase tech don't have flight decks or drones.
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Dear Alex,
There should be a battlestation/star fortress fight in the main menu mission mode.  :)

Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #475 on: July 17, 2012, 09:27:44 PM »

I remember the fun i and my brother had when one of us was flying an Ilwrathi dragon in star control... Especially when you both can`t see that cloaked vessel.

Prediction fire based on asteroids changing their trajectory, incidental collisions with planets, fire breath fired on deduction based on zoom level - oh man, it was so damn cool! :)

I remember playing it with friends. Good times.

Although, with the way cloak worked, you could always tell exactly where the other ship was - since the screen centered on the midpoint between the two ships. Something I didn't know for the longest time - if you pressed the fire button while cloaked, the Ilwrath would instantly turn to point towards the enemy right before coming out it.

I didn't quite understand: does the phase ability replace shield and a ship system; or if a ship can phase can it have a ship system as well, e.g. ship can phase and have drones or ship can phase and has burn drive

Phase cloak replaces the shield, and you use right-click to turn it on and off. The ship still has a system, though.

What happens if a ship with launch bays phases with fighters on-board?
   - I know this has been mentioned but will there be a way for you to tell fighters to say on board until released (This could be done with ship systems, but then you lose a different ship system)
I'm guessing ships with phase tech don't have flight decks or drones.

Yep. Technically, you could specify for a phase ship to have decks or drones, but it wouldn't work very well - rather, it would just ignore the phase cloak and its status entirely. None of the stock phase ships have this issue (i.e., they don't have drones or flight decks).

Although, it'd probably look ok - since fighters/drones fade in/out while taking off/landing, they should look fine interacting with a phased ship. Lore-wise, you could say that a phase carrier has the tech to pull fighters into phase with it as they come in for a landing, or some such.
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Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #476 on: July 17, 2012, 11:36:41 PM »


The problem with the lance is that in sufficient numbers - say, 2-4 capital ships equipped with it - it could snipe capital ships from across the map, shields or no shields.

Isn't this more an AI problem, IE that they don't know to arm their shields versus threats with longer ranged weapons?


Also Alex, you need to understand it costs 32 OP, that's a LOT and it's really only useful AS support.  It's an awful close-range weapon because it cannot penetrate shields on larger ships.  If you're testing only versus how the AI responds or how quickly it kills smaller ships than I think it needs testing in other areas as even with 4 lances I couldn't really get past an onslaught's shielding.
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Faiter119

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #477 on: July 18, 2012, 05:35:32 AM »


The problem with the lance is that in sufficient numbers - say, 2-4 capital ships equipped with it - it could snipe capital ships from across the map, shields or no shields.

Isn't this more an AI problem, IE that they don't know to arm their shields versus threats with longer ranged weapons?


Also Alex, you need to understand it costs 32 OP, that's a LOT and it's really only useful AS support.  It's an awful close-range weapon because it cannot penetrate shields on larger ships.  If you're testing only versus how the AI responds or how quickly it kills smaller ships than I think it needs testing in other areas as even with 4 lances I couldn't really get past an onslaught's shielding.

Yeah if the Lance keeps its 32 OP and gets this big nerf, im never going to use it again.
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heskey30

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #478 on: July 18, 2012, 07:50:59 AM »

Well that's the point, isn't it?

If it isn't so overpowered that you feel like you have to use it to get an optimal build... well that is optimal I'd say. And it isn't a fun enough weapon (just point and smite) to play just for fun. With this change, it still does have it's uses.

Suggestion, though: if you want it to be less powerful against fighters and frigates, alex, try making it "vibrate". Like inaccuracy except for beams, so every frame it is at a different angle in a certain arc. It might look cool too... it would also get emp damage all across a bigger enemy ship. You would have to balance it differently then of course... but it might be worth a try.
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naufrago

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #479 on: July 18, 2012, 07:51:37 AM »

I'm going to have to agree with alex's decision with the tachyon lance nerf. You don't seem to realize how powerful range is as a stat. I'll refer you to this post I made to explain why range is powerful and why the tachyon lance is as powerful as it is.

At 2500 range, it still has twice the range of the next longest range weapon, the HIL. Combined with the ITU, that's 3750, which can be further increased by taking sensor beacons. That still allows you to bombard from the back lines without fear of retaliation. With the nerf, you won't be able to snipe fighters from across the map, but you won't notice the range nerf as much as you might think.

However, I think you're most concerned about the 50% damage nerf. That's also a non-issue. At 50% damage, the Tachyon lance will deal at least 750 damage per shot. That's still enough to punch holes in armor and put a serious dent in the hull of any ship (it deals as much or more damage per shot than almost every other large weapon). It maintains its strong burst potential without being overpoweredly so. It will still be useful as a support weapon, dealing heavy damage at range to frigates and cruisers alike and crippling their weapons and engines, but won't be as much use on its own because it's not great at breaking shields.

If you're concerned about its dps being 100 and flux being 350/s, you have to realize that you must sacrifice SOMETHING for the extreme range of the weapon. Still, a drop to 30 OP to be inline with the Plasma cannon may not be unwarranted, but it's really not that big of a deal.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 08:06:05 AM by naufrago »
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