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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); In-development patch notes for Starsector 0.98a (2/8/25)

Author Topic: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler  (Read 1369 times)

pixel_rice_bowl

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Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« on: January 11, 2025, 06:54:29 PM »

I spent about six hours reshading / redrawing a sprite based on output from a ship model. Here is the final result:



The concept is simple: it carries non-standardized cargo that wouldn't fit on a Buffalo. Think of the "wide load" flatbed trucks on a highway. Do you think this is plausible? (There are probably too many weapon mounts.) I see it as the kind of ship that is deployed to assist with building something in space.

Or maybe the boxes on the top could be drone bays and the ship is meant to be a combat-ready and armored construction ship. The drones can be used like terminator drones to be launched at enemy ships or stop enemy ships block enemy weapon fire.

I realize asking about function after drawing is approaching this backward. I don't need to salvage the sprite if it's conceptually unworkable, just thought I'd ask anyway!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2025, 07:17:15 PM by pixel_rice_bowl »
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DeMatt

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2025, 08:20:55 PM »

If it's just supposed to be a cargo hauler, then yes, there are too many weapon mounts.  A Tarsus (noted for durability and hazardous-area performance) has just four small ballistic mounts;  a Colossus has the same number on a larger hull, and an Atlas has fewer at three.  Eight small and two medium is a lot more (potential) firepower.

As to the idea of a "strap oversized cargo on the outside" transporter... it depends on how "hard" you want the physics to be.  Starsector, I feel, sits closer to the "hard" end than the "soft" end;  in service of that, the ships' mass is (nominally) balanced on their engine plumes, as if they were actual rockets.  So if you imagine your sprite as a flat plate, with the engines at one edge, onto which you strap cargo onto the flat side... all of a sudden, those engines aren't pushing against the center of gravity, they're offset.

In my opinion, if you want this to be a "haul oversized cargo" sort of affair... then I'd delete roughly the middle fifth of the ship, see attached image.  This allows the oversized cargo to be "balanced" on the cylindrical support near the stern, extend dorsally and ventrally at will, clamped port and starboard by the six yellow box-things, and covered (somewhat) by the port and starboard wings.  If you were thinking of cargo oversized to the point of being larger than the ship, well... at that point, I think the transportation corporation would be thinking more of "tugs" rather than "flatbeds".

ETA:  Alternatively, you can read up on how David designed the Shepherd, part 1 and part 2, and then think about how you'd apply that sort of thinking to your Space Hauler.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2025, 08:37:05 PM by DeMatt »
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Wyvern

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2025, 08:57:22 PM »

I mean, I, personally, feel the game could use some more combat freighters. So in that respect I don't think it's too many weapon mounts. (Well. Assuming cruiser scale ship, at least? That is too many weapon mounts for a combat freighter of destroyer size.)
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Brainwright

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2025, 09:14:09 PM »

Looks great.  I especially like the contrast of the basic hull and the industrial sections.  The engine section is really well done as well.

I wouldn't worry about the weapon mounts so long as you don't mind most of them going unfilled.  One of the facets of starsector combat is that mounting less weapons technically makes your shields more efficient, so there is a strong tendency to mount less weapons if you aren't actually looking to kill something.

Also, few small ballistic pd weapons can effectively kill missiles that aren't directed directly at them.  So players might find all that freedom functionally useless unless the weapon arcs are right.  Pincushion builds just don't work.

Could do well with a pair of flak cannons and some light ballistics or some alternate configurations.  All depends on the arcs, but the current design philosophy in vanilla is a bit topsy-turvy.  So expect some flak if you make something actually useful.
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Megas

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2025, 06:28:52 AM »

Look at Colossus III that the pirates use.  It has a lot of mounts, but with its stats, you probably could fit only light mortars or mining lasers on them (and talons or mining pods in its bays).  Also, the Venture.  Several medium mounts plus few small missiles.

As long as the dissipation and other stats are sub-par, it does not matter too much if it has too many mounts.  Actually, this could probably be like an alternative Venture.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2025, 07:04:32 AM »

I should probably give a mortar and mining laser setup a try
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2025, 10:11:28 AM »

looks neat, but it does feel like it has too many weapon mounts. Replace some of those small ones with lightbulbs like Buffalo. The medium ones are cool. They fit Midline aesthetic. Also I just noticed the small hardpoint missile mounts. These are really neat too. Perfect place to put Swarmers and shoot down pesky plumbers Talons

drew a crude schematic in paint using images of how i imagine a weapon setup for such a ship
Spoiler
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the lightbulbs represent the blinkers...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2025, 10:18:15 AM by Killer of Fate »
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happycrow

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2025, 12:33:07 PM »

I mean, I, personally, feel the game could use some more combat freighters.

What's a good place to discuss that w/o hijacking prb's thread? I've got a number of low-end ideas and a copy of GIMP but at least five books to finish before I can try modding seriously.
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Wyvern

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2025, 01:24:04 PM »

I mean, I, personally, feel the game could use some more combat freighters.

What's a good place to discuss that w/o hijacking prb's thread? I've got a number of low-end ideas and a copy of GIMP but at least five books to finish before I can try modding seriously.
Depends on what you want to talk about. New thread in the modding sub-forum, maybe?
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Not a Pirate

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2025, 08:12:12 AM »

I think it looks great.

If you're “worried” about the number of weapons, then make 2 versions of the ship.   One that is a pure civi ship and one that carries less and can hold its own if it needs to fight off a quick attack as you zip through hyperspace.

The center of the ship looks cool, don't core it out.
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Princess of Evil

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2025, 08:52:12 AM »

One question is, if this exists, why would pirates try to upgun an Atlas?
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Scorpixel

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2025, 03:57:56 PM »

One question is, if this exists, why would pirates try to upgun an Atlas?
(Lore)Reasons i can think of:

-Pirates don't get much choice in what they get
-Combat freighters are rarer than more efficient civilian haulers, and actually bite back even without convoy escorts
-The size of Atlases has both practical and psychological advantages despite the (many) shortcomings

I would have agreed that this ship concept is indeed quite up gunned even for a cruiser-sized combat freighter and would have to suffer from low OP and probably 2-4 less mounts.
However having compared it to venture.png the damn thing is just as wide and slightly longer on top of filling the whole space! this is not a beefed-up buffalo, it's a venture cosplaying a colossus, at which point the small mounts and both sides of the hull sharing a different postal code make it a very inefficient use of DP in a fight unless it had some kind of built-in armour-cracker, although more suited for a mining/salvage ship than a construction one. That or enough drones to give Spark-meta flashbacks but the current skill system really doesn't like those as it dilutes strength away from the fighters you want to actually do things.
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Rusty Edge

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2025, 05:21:05 PM »

 From an artistic standpoint, the back end looks a lot more busy than the front end, and it's a little jarring.
 Depending on how you envision the ship as a 3D vessel; I recommend adding either a slightly shaded taper to add depth; OR if you like the look of a brutal precipice, then add some battlements or knobs.

Aside from that, I think it looks good.

As far as weaponry goes, I like the missiles, keep them if you do decide to tone down the other weaponry. Building a combat freighter, you should consider if it is something you might actually want to fly in the early game, and how interesting it would be for you to fight one. Hound, Cerberus, Mule, Venture and Apogee all have something that make them a little spicy in the early to mid game.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Proof of Concept: Space Hauler
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2025, 03:31:19 AM »

One question is, if this exists, why would pirates try to upgun an Atlas?
because in this world you can fit more guns on an atlas
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