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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); In-development patch notes for Starsector 0.98a (2/8/25)

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Author Topic: Retribution builds for sale cheap  (Read 1708 times)

Phenir

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Re: Retribution builds for sale cheap
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2024, 07:25:32 PM »

What a horrible day to have eyes.

Why even use Retribution if you're going to put the most unoptimal weapons on it? Salamanders for some reason, coupled with triple Hellbores on a ship that fights in knife range, Dual Flak for that extra OP waste, and then kinetics that don't make sense on a ship with Orion Device. Why not Needlers? Why not go full efficiency mode and go with HMGs and Devastators? It seems like 3 different people were arguing on how to outfit a ship and then each one put something of their own.

I'm sorry but that screenshot took a week out of my life in 10 seconds. It's quite close to that picture of a Paragon with 4 medium weapons in large energy mounts.

Because the Retribution sits in an odd place where it doesn't really need extreme range or burst efficiency.  Because it can choose when and where to strike, raw efficiency for each piece of flux spent is what counts.  Spending huge amounts of OP on weapons isn't necessary, and can even be a detriment when they exceed the ships venting ability.

I run the Retribution with more caps than normal because it gives it noticeably more time in combat, which is what it wants most.  More vents are just frittered into the wind each time I manually vent.
That's the thing, it goes to save op by using hellbores and light autocannons and then over spends on dual flak and heavy autocannon and salamanders. His description of 3 different people building it was apt. You could drop the dual flaks altogether (or replace them with regular flaks) if you used devastators instead of hellbores. Those hellbores outrange your other guns anyway because no rangefinder.  Upgrading to needles is a little too expensive yeah but nothing says you can't go up 1 op to dual autocannons. Those heavy autocannons could be arbalests which are not only more efficient but also better at damaging hull which this build kind of lacks. Which is another thing. The dps on that build looks really lacking for a glass cannon like the retribution. Once you get through their shield and armor all you got is a bunch of autocannons and 3 hellbores. The autocannons do little so the HE has to carry and hellbore, while good at getting through armor, is not particularly stellar at anti hull compared to other options.
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Chumbosity

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Re: Retribution builds for sale cheap
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2024, 07:46:51 PM »

Now that I'm home from work, here's the build I run along with my character skills:

Spoiler


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Pretty simple stuff. Storm Cannon plus plain ol' Thumpers do great work of punching through shields, as the Thumpers are still more effective than any small kinetic against shields. If that's not enough for you, a salvo of Sabots should be plenty. I know a lot of people like to skip missiles entirely on the Retribution, but Sabots work wonderfully with the Orion Drive system: they carry the speed boost you get from it very well, and have no trouble at all connecting with even frigates should you deign to use your Sabots on them. Expanded Magazines & Extended Shields are must-haves as s-mods, and Advanced Turret Gyros are nice since you're spending most of your time chopping up smaller ships.

The five combat skills - Helmsmanship, elite Impact Mitigation, Damage Control, Ballistics Mastery, and Systems Expertise - Coordinated Manueuvers, and three of the technology skills - Gunnery Implants, Electronic Warfare, and Flux Regulation - are the most important ones for you to get. You want to stack all the maneuverability you can get on a hit-and-run ship like the Retribution. I was running carriers on this build so I had to drop a couple of skills I would've taken when running a Retribution, but otherwise I'd take Crew Training & Tactical Drills in leadership over the two carrier skills. I'd also even consider going for a 9/1/5/0 build, taking just Coordinated Maneuvers from leadership & all combat skills except Missile Specialization. This allows you to slot in five Light Dual Machine Guns in the front of the ship if you drop Resistant Flux Conduits and some vents. You really do need all the kinetic damage you can get in order to fight other large ships.
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Spyro

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Re: Retribution builds for sale cheap
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2024, 12:48:12 AM »

See, that's a proper build. Probably the best one so far in this thread, although I am a bit partial to Mining Blasters as well (I like the burst + scripted dmg).

Insane DPS with great efficiency, LOADS of flux stats and enough defensive mods so that you don't immediately die when another ship looks at you.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Retribution builds for sale cheap
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2024, 01:26:50 AM »

For the player-controlled flagship, I've been messing around with:

5 Light Needlers on the forward smalls
2 Heavy Autocannons on the forward mediums (can also use Heavy Needlers instead)
2 Flak Cannons on the inner mediums
3 Hephaestus on the larges, manual control (rest are on autofire)

S-mod Advanced Turret Gyros, Armored Weapon Mounts, Heavy Armor
Also have Ballistic Rangefinder, Hardened Shields, Resistant Flux Conduits, Shield Conversion - Front
Max vent then rest into caps (27 caps, 55 vents)

Skills are CE, IM, FM, TA, BM; TD, CM, CT, OT, BotB; Nav, GI, EWM, FR, CA, elite as applicable

Against double Ordos it does slightly worse than flagship Onslaught, but it does fairly well. The anti-shields are good enough to stand up to capitals, and the 3 Heph kill off pretty much everything pretty quickly. The 2 Flak Cannons are pretty much sufficient, along with shields. I run in, kill a few ships, then back off and vent, repeat. It also works to throw in some Swarmers just to help clear out trash/fighters early on, but that is at the expense of caps. I could probably get better use out of Harpoons, but then I'd have to manually control them and that's too much to bother with, so the Swarmers are simply always-on.
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Spyro

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Re: Retribution builds for sale cheap
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2024, 01:49:52 AM »

I was about to say, that looks almost identical to an Onslaught build I saw somewhere, just obviously without medium missiles.

But what is the reason behind s-modded Heavy Armor? You have plenty of shield mods, more caps seems like a clear winner there. And you don't get the penalty from the s-mod. Idk just looking at the list of hullmods, it kinda sticks out in the build. Retribution generally doesn't reward armor increases (even if they're flat) since it starts out with a depressing 800.
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Ptirodaktill

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Re: Retribution builds for sale cheap
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2024, 10:45:32 AM »

 Retribution can be quite a fun flagship, but unfortunately AI has no idea what to do with it. You must full commit to Cybernetic augmentation to make good use of Retribution, that mean 5 blue 2 green and 8 combat skills required.
 Auxullary truster and Advanced turret Gyro s-moded.
 Armored weapon mounts, Hardened shields, Extended Shield, Automatic repair unit, Unstable injector, Solar shielding, Resistant flux conduits. 7 DLMG up front, 2 devastators on the side, hellbore in the middle 2 thrumpers near the centre. No missile, no room for them. Max Vents. Good luck =)
 * Did more tests. PD only Retribution perform the best as player flagship. 4 HMG 3DLMG 3 Devastator basicly instakill destroyers and eat even remnants shields like candy. Had to give up on Solar shielding and Armored weapon mounts. =(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4mO2U9US1w

« Last Edit: December 28, 2024, 01:31:46 PM by Ptirodaktill »
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Vanshilar

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Re: Retribution builds for sale cheap
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2024, 05:58:19 PM »

I was about to say, that looks almost identical to an Onslaught build I saw somewhere, just obviously without medium missiles.

Yes, it's pretty similar to my flagship Onslaught build lately: Typhoons instead of Proximity Charge Launchers for the medium missiles, then 2 Flak Cannons instead of HVD's for the inner mediums, which seems to cover around 95% of incoming missiles. Otherwise HAC's for the forward mediums and Mjolnir/Heph for the larges. The Typhoons make short work of cruisers and capitals once their flux is high, and I don't have to get in as close as I would if I were using PCL's instead. Previously, PCL's were doing double duty as both anti-capital and as PD, but means that if I get distracted, or if I'm trying to finish off capitals, I get hit by missiles. Now capitals and cruisers die quickly and suddenly to the Typhoons so the other weapons are mostly to mop up.

But what is the reason behind s-modded Heavy Armor? You have plenty of shield mods, more caps seems like a clear winner there. And you don't get the penalty from the s-mod. Idk just looking at the list of hullmods, it kinda sticks out in the build. Retribution generally doesn't reward armor increases (even if they're flat) since it starts out with a depressing 800.

If you're good at keeping your flagship alive, you can certainly do without Heavy Armor. Heavy Armor is a flat +500 increase to armor so for a low-armor capital like the Retribution, it makes a big difference. It really depends on how confident you are that you'll be able to take everything on shields without having to resort (much) to armor/hull. So there are some different options defensively.
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Daynen

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Re: Retribution builds for sale cheap
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2025, 05:51:20 PM »

Two storm needlers and a hellbore for the large mounts and a pair of thumpers on the mediums.

Yeah, I know.  "Thumpers?"  Sounds insane, works better than it has any right to.  You've got constant kinetic pressure to keep targets at high flux (and consequently nerf their return damage output a bit,) a hellbore for that initial armor crack and then thumpers to add cheap, flux efficient, nonstop damage.  Set your hullmods to make it work for you, jump around until you find your target and just listen to the carnage as you absolutely eviscerate, reveling as your damage increases inversely to the enemy's remaining healthbar.  You've got all three damage types doing exactly what they do best at every stage of an engagement and the mobility to apply them all with extreme prejudice.
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