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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Anubis-class Cruiser (12/20/24)

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Author Topic: Anubis-class Cruiser  (Read 19592 times)

Ripmorld

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #120 on: December 22, 2024, 04:36:29 AM »

Agreed on the TS hurting PPT, support ships having to bail on what they're supposed to be supporting is rough.
Hardened Subsystems actually has good value on it then, because +50% PPT is a lot when added onto cruiser numbers.
It doesn't increase ppt , it reduces the CR loss rate after ppt runs out & reduces the ppt loss from hullmods (or dmods) that reduces ppt like safety override. But yes , reducing the CR decay rate is pretty good on this ship that burns through ppt and CR
It literally does, it even shows it updated on the ship stat card.
oh , huh sry then I must have mistaken
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Rohzdear

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #121 on: December 22, 2024, 04:59:10 AM »

Honestly. after trying out the ship with that one mod that replicates it, I can say that the Hullmod really doesn't give the ship a lot of space to do much of anything.
If you really wanted it to be a designated Prototype PD ship, why not just Build-in the Paladins to the side?
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Ripmorld

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #122 on: December 22, 2024, 05:00:05 AM »

Another build that uses Sarrisa fighters
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If I didn't s mod hardened shield, I can probably drop ECM package for it
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Ripmorld

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #123 on: December 22, 2024, 05:03:13 AM »

Honestly. after trying out the ship with that one mod that replicates it, I can say that the Hullmod really doesn't give the ship a lot of space to do much of anything.
If you really wanted it to be a designated Prototype PD ship, why not just Build-in the Paladins to the side?
I think if paladin is forced onto the ship , it will give it even less area to play with , easpically if mods are taken into consideration. I find there are plenty build that are possible it just requires to have SO.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #124 on: December 22, 2024, 07:42:51 AM »

i feel that if i give the anubis SO i will be able to see it disintegrate in real time
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Bungee_man

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #125 on: December 22, 2024, 08:59:27 AM »

I dunno how I feel about this ship. Thematically, the space equivalent of a Atlanta-class CL (anti-aircraft cruiser) seems pretty cool. But because that niche doesn't exist already, players aren't naturally gravitating towards it.

Now that you mention it, it seems a bit like a not-Aurora. The Aurora is a fast, independent brawling vessel with a high price tag and a crippling weakness to fighter swarms. The Anubis sacrifices direct brawling power, but is devastating against fighters, and likewise fills the niche of a nimble, survivable attack ship, but at a lower price point. Two meaningfully different solutions to the same problem, with fighter clearance as an auxiliary benefit.

Strict anti-fighter ships, as you say, wouldn't really be possible to balance, since they're dead weight against an enemy that doesn't field fighters, and against an enemy that does, either they're less efficient than just equipping your ships with PD, or they're absolutely vital and your build is forced to include a specific ship.

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Like you said in the blog post, players don't like burning large energy slots on PD. They're too valuable, and there simply aren't enough missiles and fighters to make it worthwhile. This also hurts the idea of a "firefighter" role. If there aren't enough missiles and fighters to make PD worthwhile, then how can you expect there to be enough to make a PD-dedicated cruiser worthwhile? Heck, how can you expect it to be worthwhile for the player to pilot that ship??

I think buffing the Paladin is a reasonable solution, and that's what's been done. A fast-rotating laser that rips unshielded targets to bits is a decent sidegrade to the HIL, especially with the added benefit of allowing smaller slots to be dedicated to other roles.

I would like to see it get mount-independent 360 degree rotation, though. That'd make it a much better choice on the Paragon and Odyssey, but it'd also feel a lot more interesting. It might need more buffs further on, but ultra high-efficiency anti-armor burst damage with a side bonus of being able to replace your PD with offensive armaments isn't a terrible deal.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2024, 09:01:13 AM by Bungee_man »
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HELMUT

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #126 on: December 22, 2024, 09:50:01 AM »

I'm not around a lot these days, but I still like reading those blogposts, especially when it's about a new ship. I couldn't help but frown when reading about the Design Compromise hullmod. Creating a custom hullmod to prevent a ship from becoming overpowered is one thing, creating a custom hullmod to do that AND shoehorn it into a distinct role with a specific weapon in mind... Alright, this is going to be interesting.

Thanks to ymfah's mod, we can beta test the thing and see how it works.

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At first glance, the three large mounts and the temporal shell system makes the Anubis seems quite frightening, even with the poor flux performances. Beyond that, the stats are looking really good. It's cheap, fast, a damn good shield, high maximum burn and whole lot of OPs. All in all, the Anubis looks like a real bad motherf*cker of a cruiser.

But then comes the Design Compromise hullmod, which makes it nowhere near as scary as it first appears. In some funny way, it's a bit of scam ship. You expect some absolute monster cruiser, and then you buy/salvage it, try it, and... Oh, you did you not read the fine print at the bottom of the ad? Sorry, no refund.

Alright, so let's try to make it work. I did some relatively extensive testing both as a flagship and as an AI wingman to see how it fares.

Unless you're willing to fly some franken-build with empty mounts, you'll have to use Paladins. More than one "big gun" can pretty much cripple the ship's generators. Hell, even one tachyon lance will perilously spike its flux capacity in one shot. I often saw my Anubis venting mid-burst of a Tachyon strike because of this. I managed to build some half-decent frontliners by downsizing the weapons, but it's definitely not a role it can comfortably fullfill without resorting to unusual builds. For some reason it's very reluctant about using Autopulses, only firing them in very small bursts. I got much better results with Plasma cannons, or even Giga cannons.

So, a support ship then. It took me a little bit, but I eventually managed to get something satisfying out of it.

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The greatest strength of the Anubis isn't the ship itself, it's what it allows other ships to do when it's around. Thanks to the Paladin's ability to overshoot friendlies, and its whole suite of range extending hullmods, this Anubis variant only exists to cover its allies from missiles and fighters, and an unexpectedly solid frigate flyswatter on top of that. This, allowed me to build my other ships differently.

Some people would call me a madman for doing this but... Have you ever tried to pilot an Onslaught without any point defense? Because I did, and it's glorious. With my little high-tech buddy following me around I don't need PDs anymore. When a League Pegasus mag dumps its Dragonfire torpeodes into my venting butt, and not a single one reaches me, that's thanks to my escort and its three Paladins. My Onslaught could happily waltz around without fear of fighters and missiles, focusing all of its flux on killing things. Even my carriers had no need for interceptors. One thing that doesn't appears in my build's screenshot is the hardened subsystems hullmod. You'll need that to handle the large battles, as temporal shell will munch through the Anubis's CR distressingly fast.

One thing of note, I did put two Pilums at the prow. Not because it's a good idea, but because those two hardpoints can be tricky to be properly exploited, and fire and forget weapons were an easy solution. Energy weapons? It can't afford the flux. Ballistics? The lower range is a dangerous prospect for such a vulnerable ship. Missiles? The ROF penalty can be painful, even if it's  somewhat compensated by temporal shell. It's a difficult ship to build because of Design Compromise. Sometimes I feel it got pigeonholed too hard into being a Paladin boat. That does make it quite painful during early game when large energy weapons can be relatively difficult to obtain. It's definitely not a beginner friendly ship in its current form.

All in all, it works. But it's undoubtedly the jankiest Starsector ship. It's especially noticeable when fighting an enemy Anubis, as autofit have a chance to absolutely doom it.

For me the highlight of this new addition isn't the ship itself, but what having a dedicated PD boat does to fleetbuilding as a whole. I had a lot of fun trying funky builds without PDs thanks to this.

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happycrow

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2024, 10:35:45 AM »

Alex,

"Scythian" -- Extremely fast dedicated Pilum launcher next.  :)
Not going to lie, kind of love the name and the vibe.

Yes this please please.
[/quote]

What you think? Combat Freighter?  Or "modified Dram bc the Independents need to fight their way out of pirate ambushes?"
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2024, 10:37:59 AM »

Now i am having a chuckle at noticing how much worse the Defender and Bastillion are at being dedicated PD ships. Granted they are Derelict but it's the closest thing i know that is roughly designed for that sort of support role.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #129 on: December 22, 2024, 10:42:21 AM »

Alex,

"Scythian" -- Extremely fast dedicated Pilum launcher next.  :)
Not going to lie, kind of love the name and the vibe.

Yes this please please.


What you think? Combat Freighter?  Or "modified Dram bc the Independents need to fight their way out of pirate ambushes?"
Ideally it would be nice if it could fit at least one pilum catapult so Dram is probably waaaaaaaaaaaay too small. Maybe. Dunno.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2024, 10:48:14 AM by Doctorhealsgood »
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #130 on: December 22, 2024, 10:49:47 AM »

are we talking about buffing civilian ships?
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happycrow

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #131 on: December 22, 2024, 11:01:23 AM »

Nah, just trying to fully seduce Alex into making that Scythian.  :)
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Alex

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #132 on: December 22, 2024, 11:04:53 AM »

Out of curiosity, is it a "light cruiser" or standard cruiser?  Specifically is it going to have a burn speed of 9 or 8, and is it going to be priced more like a Fury or an Aurora in credits?  If its burn speed 9 and on the cheaper side, it could be interesting as an alternative destroyer pack leader in player hands, but given the fact that stronger high tech player piloted options are available, I wouldn't expect this to see much player piloting time past mid-game.  Certainly something I could see putting in AI hands if there's a heavy missile/fighter opposition, like the Ziggurat mission.

It's an "experimental cruiser". Burn is 8, but it's pretty cheap - cheaper than a Fury, even, in terms of credits. Which doesn't necessarily make immediate in-fiction sense, but one could probably think up some reasons for it; gameplay-wise though it just makes sense for it to be cheaper to buy.

I'll be interested in testing it out in the next release, but I'd guess in terms of smaller ships supporting capitals, I still think Medusa and other destroyers (and even some frigates) are going to come out ahead unless the makeup of typical threats changes.  For example, I expect it to go pop if isolated and focused down by a Nova or Radiant, just like a number of current destroyers do.

(There will definitely be a very different endgame-level threat! And, in fact, one where PD is particularly valuable. I wasn't actively thinking of that when working on the Anubis, though, so that's more of a happy coincidence.)


Oh boy this ship, I think i am in love. Sure it's filled with debuffs to compensate but my brain is already cooking a setup.

Excellent :D


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Anyways hows this anubis build. Non SO because the ppt burns too fast. Rare use of heavy mortar but its pretty much the only weapon its flux can support.

Hmm - unexpected? :) Would be very cool if something like that worked too, though!



I would like to see it get mount-independent 360 degree rotation, though. That'd make it a much better choice on the Paragon and Odyssey, but it'd also feel a lot more interesting. It might need more buffs further on, but ultra high-efficiency anti-armor burst damage with a side bonus of being able to replace your PD with offensive armaments isn't a terrible deal.

Mechanically, it's a neat idea! Visually, I really don't like how it looks when beams overlap a ship too much. I mean, the Paladin already does a bit of that when it fires over friendlies, but still.



I'm not around a lot these days, but I still like reading those blogposts, especially when it's about a new ship.

Hey hey! Nice to see you're around! Glad you had fun experimenting with the ship, at any rate :)
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PixiCode

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #133 on: December 22, 2024, 11:51:41 AM »

It's an "experimental cruiser". Burn is 8, but it's pretty cheap - cheaper than a Fury, even, in terms of credits. Which doesn't necessarily make immediate in-fiction sense, but one could probably think up some reasons for it; gameplay-wise though it just makes sense for it to be cheaper to buy.

I think that can fit in pretty well with what I know of the team's established lore so far. As a thought experiment; The nanoforge blueprint was never distributed outside of the development project pre-collapse, leading to few copies made of it and little knowledge of it. Post-collapse, the blueprint was given a run through a nanoforge production by some person or surviving company believing they had found a tidy profit; a salvager discovered a nanoforge blueprint, some executive remembered it existed, whatever happened they saw potential in the Anubis. Unfortunately, the design compromises of the Anubis were seen as very unpopular at the time of production and very few buyers came. Despite its rarity, its value on the market never recovered after that initial blunder.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2024, 11:53:43 AM by PixiCode »
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happycrow

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Re: Anubis-class Cruiser
« Reply #134 on: December 22, 2024, 11:55:26 AM »

I won't lie, I think that's brilliant. If there were blueprints for ships that you don't actually normally see in game, that would make for a really neat either quest reward or find it in location y, thing. Similar to the red planet. Even if it's just an unusual variant of an existing ship that nobody knows how to make because they don't have a blueprint and then you stumble onto a blueprint. And hey look you've got an absolutely unique ship. Clearly you should sell it on the black market so the pirates can have it...
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