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Author Topic: Onslaught is laughably bad  (Read 10039 times)

PixiCode

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2024, 01:14:41 PM »

I've had success vs ordos with HMG + elite PD thanks to them being reckless and generally short ranged. I don't know if I'd call it 'meta' or anything, but it can work.

That’s actually what I do with my dominators vs fearless enemies like ordos - not HMG elite PD necessarily, but I use short range weapons. Railguns and light Needlers without BRF, and 2 devastators. I’ve used it with BRF too, but if you use gunnery implants and ballistic mastery that seems like it does the job for facing remnants. Works pretty well, does lots of damage but without breaking the flux bank. The massive recoil reduction of the hardpoints and all the range bonuses you give it makes the devastators act as if it were a 700 base range weapon with ITU, which is perfect for fighting fearless enemies.
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Nick9

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #76 on: November 25, 2024, 10:06:53 PM »

Cleaned up a few posts. There a line between disagreement and just being rude without adding anything to the discussion; @Nick9, Kronox, please familiarize yourselves with the forum rules: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2668.0
Was my post rude though... Only useless /shrug
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Princess of Evil

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2024, 12:13:55 AM »

I'm hesitant to call railguns short ranged. They're medium range and keeping perfect 900+ITU range from enemies is a myth, you'll always be dipping into RG range.
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PixiCode

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2024, 05:52:12 AM »

I'm hesitant to call railguns short ranged. They're medium range and keeping perfect 900+ITU range from enemies is a myth, you'll always be dipping into RG range.

Devastators used as anti-ship weapons are short to mid range. Also, I said it’s without BRF, so it’s 700+ ITU, not 900.
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Princess of Evil

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2024, 05:54:46 AM »

Devastators used as anti-ship weapons are melee range, due to losing half their DPS at 60% range. 900 being the range of a midrange large weapon.
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PixiCode

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #80 on: November 26, 2024, 06:04:32 AM »

Devastators used as anti-ship weapons are melee range, due to losing half their DPS at 60% range. 900 being the range of a midrange large weapon.

Try giving devastators intense recoil reduction (such as hardpojnts + awm + gi) and also as many range bonuses as you can muster (ITU + gi + bm at minimum. Pd elite too if you can spare it)

This makes the devastator so long range that it does a majority of its damage at about 980 range, which is 700 x 1.4. That’s why I called it like it’s a 700 base range weapon with ITU, and why I called it short to midrange.
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Princess of Evil

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #81 on: November 26, 2024, 06:19:22 AM »

What are these eldritch letters? English, please.
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PixiCode

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #82 on: November 26, 2024, 06:23:28 AM »

What are these eldritch letters? English, please.

Armored weapon mounts, gunnery implants, ballistic mastery, Integrated targeting unit, point defense elite
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Princess of Evil

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #83 on: November 26, 2024, 07:27:41 AM »

Which, by my calculations, is ~350 units (before ITU) before it starts losing DPS to random flakkening.
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Phenir

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #84 on: November 26, 2024, 07:52:42 AM »

What are these eldritch letters? English, please.
The irony. It doth slay mine sides. I can't believe you, of all people, complain about acronyms.
Which, by my calculations, is ~350 units (before ITU) before it starts losing DPS to random flakkening.
Why anyone wouldn't be using itu is a mystery to me but that still makes it better dps than hellbore and more efficient and cheaper to equip than hag AND it makes anything fighter or missile coming from the front useless. And like you said, enemies staying at max range is a myth when it comes to ordos so it's definitely going to be doing above average damage.
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PixiCode

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #85 on: November 26, 2024, 08:35:14 AM »

Which, by my calculations, is ~350 units (before ITU) before it starts losing DPS to random flakkening.

Why are you saying before ITU? The ship this is being designed around is a known quantity, the dominator, so we know what the ITU bonus would be.

900 x 1.65 (40%+10%+15%) = 1,485 and 1,685 if pd elite is used too. If devastator deals at least 55% of its damage at 981 range with these bonuses, it’s a much more flux efficient slightly lower range version of hellbore, for less hitstrength, that is way harder to shield flicker and also acts as fighter and missile clear. That range would be a little less than the Railgun range without BRF. But like you mentioned ships won’t always be at max range, so devastator will be doing even more damage on average. Especially versus fearless enemies that love getting close.
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TheFreind

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #86 on: November 26, 2024, 12:41:53 PM »

This thread is interesting. While we're somewhere on the topic of Dominators and Onslaughts, does anyone know how to properly outfit a Dominator? I hear people liking it so that got me interested; but I just can't seem to figure out a good build for it to work. It's always meandering and doing something unimportant. When the battle gets hot, certain ships clutch hard in winning their little skirmishes, but I just can never rely on the Dominator to do what it's made for.
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Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #87 on: November 26, 2024, 12:54:41 PM »

Dominators aren't great in AI hands because AI likes to switch targets often. For a ship with main battery in hardpoints and low maneouverability that means it will not be shooting at anything half the time. Onslaught kind of sidesteps the issue because switching targets lets TPC regenerate ammo and everything else is in a turret.
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PixiCode

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #88 on: November 26, 2024, 01:02:28 PM »

This thread is interesting. While we're somewhere on the topic of Dominators and Onslaughts, does anyone know how to properly outfit a Dominator? I hear people liking it so that got me interested; but I just can't seem to figure out a good build for it to work. It's always meandering and doing something unimportant. When the battle gets hot, certain ships clutch hard in winning their little skirmishes, but I just can never rely on the Dominator to do what it's made for.

No matter what build you give a dominator it benefits from being told to reposition itself somewhere better when it starts chasing some silly destroyer or frigate.

There’s a few ways to make a dominator and a few ways to specialize it against certain enemies. Here’s some general build advice for the dominator though;

Always use Integrated Targeting Unit if you are not using safety overrides.

Always use omni shield + accelerated shield if you’re using safety overrides and giving it to the ai to pilot. Or shield shunt I guess, but I’m not a fan of shield shunt dominator.

Avoid using mjolnirs if it isn’t made SO and avoid hephag. Not only is mjolnir a bit too costly for the dominator, but it also strongly prefers being in a spinal hardpoint or turret. This is because its armor stripping power isn’t the best, so it benefits from hitting the same spot on armor over that your other weapons may be hitting, concentrating damage and getting that mjolnir to hull sooner rather than later. Hephag is not as expensive but it’s got a similar ‘wants to be concentrated’ thing going on as the mjolnir. In contrast the hellbore, mark9 Autocannon and devastator all love being in hardpoints, though the devastator is notably shorter range.

Strongly consider Ballistic Rangefinder small kinetics for its loadout. Light auto cannons, railguns, light needlers. This isn’t the single best way to build a dominator, but it’s in the running as the ship that loves using BRF the most. You might even want to downsize the mediums into small kinetics too, to save on flux compared to the usually more flux inefficient mediums. Again, not a ‘must do,’ just something to consider as a tool for your builds.

Strongly consider using high impact missiles in the mediums. Target analysis elite skill’d pilums with eccm do lots of emp damage once they hit. Harpoons with ECCM are great finishers and 3 linked together are likely to hit. Any of the unguided missiles are good impact when they hit. Sabots can swing a battle immediately if the enemy gets too close.

Consider Omni shield + hardened shield builds. Yes, dominator is an armor/hull tank, but armor/hull can synergize with shields pretty well. With Omni shield it is encouraged to flicker shield more often, resulting in more armor hits from minor weapons while blocking scary ones but also more effective shields as a result.

Don’t forget to put at least 4 mining lasers or 2 Vulcans somewhere at the rear to stop the odd salamander.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2024, 01:04:13 PM by PixiCode »
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Phenir

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #89 on: November 26, 2024, 01:09:51 PM »

This thread is interesting. While we're somewhere on the topic of Dominators and Onslaughts, does anyone know how to properly outfit a Dominator? I hear people liking it so that got me interested; but I just can't seem to figure out a good build for it to work. It's always meandering and doing something unimportant. When the battle gets hot, certain ships clutch hard in winning their little skirmishes, but I just can never rely on the Dominator to do what it's made for.
Put a leash on it. By that I mean give a defend or rally point to guard. And give it a friend (EP destroyer, a nimble frigate, or even another dominator) so it doesn't have to worry so much about getting flanked and end up changing targets.
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