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Author Topic: Onslaught is laughably bad  (Read 8872 times)

Phenir

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2024, 06:23:18 AM »

(which is the basis of the Doom "Pop Goes the Radiant" trick, where you lay mines on the far side to get the omni shield to freak out, then slam the thing with 9 AM blasters)

Putting melee weapons on a phase ship is fun, but busting the capitals with them isn't really sustainable. Their death explosion is literally bigger than your range.
That's why you phase while the shots are in flight. Also pretty sure with cruiser range bonus you can outrange the explosion.
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PixiCode

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2024, 08:22:02 AM »

Dominator's benefits over the Onslaught are ... and 15 DP being the biggest benefit by far.

Yes, it's almost two times cheaper. Notice how most of the differences are *below* +60% you get just from taking the same DP of Doms? Even flux capacity, the biggest upside, is 2% lower.

There’s no point to notice that because I already mentioned the DP difference but you don’t need every benefit to be 60% better. I’m glad you like the Dominator so much.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2024, 08:32:56 AM by PixiCode »
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Daynen

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2024, 09:00:33 AM »

Guys guys guys!  How can you call this scholarly gentleman a troll when I regularly box with Onslaughts in an Atlas mk II?  Of COURSE it must be terrible because I can beat it for half its DP cost!  I demand you all apologize promptly and forthrightly to this misunderstood pariah and offer reparations in the form of... uhhhh... in the form of um...

Well I'm sure I'll think of something but in the meantime I wag my finger at all of you.  DISAPPROVINGLY.
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Hyde

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2024, 09:33:16 AM »

Technically, you can kill an Onslaught with an Omen in the sim which is 6 DP instead of 40 DP. Over 600% more expensive DP wise.

Doesn't really mean anything though as it's a not a 1v1 game and falls apart immediately in a real battle.
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Mishrak

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2024, 11:11:30 AM »

The current sim is effectively useless at being a genuine measure of strength.  At most it's good for briefly looking at a ship.  I can't wait for the new sim because we'll be able to gauge performance so much better with it.
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Spyro

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2024, 11:26:18 AM »

Can't wait for the inevitable "my build can kill the max officered Onslaught with s-mods" flexing in the comments of each balance discussion.
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eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2024, 02:46:14 PM »

Sound logic but doesn't translate to combat for some reason, HMGs did better for me they were the last option I went with there since they are pretty useless usually. Extra hull mods made all the difference.

Congrats btw on getting the Dom to beat simslaught I didn't see that earlier pretty good no? For much cheaper no less.
Thank you and no, it still takes terrible damage and sometimes dies when it explicitly counters the Sim Onslaught build and abuses some current AI bugs. Most of the baseline cruisers around the same DP can't beat sim Onslaught due to them being too slow and too reliant on missiles, PD is the one place sim Onslaught truly succeeds. However, SO Aurora can beat it without taking damage as it's fast enough to get behind the Onslaught.

It's an issue of the sim Onslaught build being too un-generalized. No HE outside of missiles means it struggles against heavy armor. No Auxiliary Thrusters means it can't fight faster opponents. Inefficient kinetic options means it would overflux itself to a High-Tech cruiser around 25 DP if one existed that didn't rely on missiles. While I haven't tested it, the Brilliant may be able to beat it with an extremely specific build.

A proper well balanced Onslaught build would not lose to any of the above.
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Thaago

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2024, 02:48:46 PM »

Also if there's one thing that players have found in sim testing, tournaments, and even anti-ordo optimization, its that the game has a heavy element of "rock paper scissors". If you can find the thing that the particular enemy is weak against, you can absolutely annihilate it with a build that might lose to something else.
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Siffrin

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2024, 09:24:40 PM »

Sound logic but doesn't translate to combat for some reason, HMGs did better for me they were the last option I went with there since they are pretty useless usually. Extra hull mods made all the difference.
Adding more anecdotal "evidence" to the pile I guess.
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Gods most reckless Odyssey captain.

Thaago

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #69 on: November 25, 2024, 10:07:22 AM »

Cleaned up a few posts. There a line between disagreement and just being rude without adding anything to the discussion; @Nick9, Kronox, please familiarize yourselves with the forum rules: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2668.0
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FunnyScope

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #70 on: November 25, 2024, 11:32:35 AM »

Honestly, I've not seen any evidence of Onslaught actually being bad in this thread. Like I posted a while back, it does just fine for me - and with that I mean that I mean that it fulfills the role that I expect it to fill as a (slow) capital: it's a fleet anchor, it has a lot of survivability, and it can deal a lot of damage. It has its weakpoints, sure - any ship should have weakpoints (otherwise it's blatantly overpowered). I like it, I've had good results with it despite not being that good at the game (my best is two ordos beaten back in 0.96a, which did cost me like half my fleet lol), and people have posted some incredible results with the Onslaught. All in all, all evidence that I've seen points to the Onslaught being a great ship. I'm open to have my mind changed on this, of course, but I haven't seen any credible evidence to prove me wrong.
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Mishrak

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2024, 11:48:31 AM »

Honestly, I've not seen any evidence of Onslaught actually being bad in this thread. Like I posted a while back, it does just fine for me - and with that I mean that I mean that it fulfills the role that I expect it to fill as a (slow) capital: it's a fleet anchor, it has a lot of survivability, and it can deal a lot of damage. It has its weakpoints, sure - any ship should have weakpoints (otherwise it's blatantly overpowered). I like it, I've had good results with it despite not being that good at the game (my best is two ordos beaten back in 0.96a, which did cost me like half my fleet lol), and people have posted some incredible results with the Onslaught. All in all, all evidence that I've seen points to the Onslaught being a great ship. I'm open to have my mind changed on this, of course, but I haven't seen any credible evidence to prove me wrong.

Onslaught has consistently been one of the best, if not the best capital in the game for ages.  This hasn't changed.  OP is just wrong.
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eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2024, 12:33:52 PM »

Adding more anecdotal "evidence" to the pile I guess.
The only reason I can see this working for him is if he was fighting almost purely short-range enemies. At which point HMG can work as elite PD + IPDAI provides 100% damage vs missiles. Throw in some Vulcans and you're completely covered PD and kinetic wise. However, you need the range if fighting anything that has a longer range, at which point you need to free up flux or the Dominator will flux itself out. You save 140 flux and 4 OP by switching to Flak Cannons from HMGs, which is required if you're going to run any of the small kinetics in the small front ballistic mounts. Despite being significantly lower in DPS, Flaks are also better PD as they hit more consistently and hit multiple targets.

So, it would be good against any fleet that lacks anti-shield weaponry that has a range over 940. So mainly certain Aurora builds, Falcon, Eagle, normal Eradicator built for range, and most of the capitals flat out counter his build due to having enough range and non-missile/fighter weaponry.

As long as it fights nearly 1v1 vs frigates and destroyers, it works, which is somewhat achievable as 9 Dominators can be deployed for 225 DP. Throw in 5 Brawlers for point capture can flank protection and target switching can be somewhat minimized.

It's not as good as he's trying to say it is, but it's also not terrible. Personally, I would use HMG plus front kinetics if I was using a Shield Shunt variation as dissipation largely isn't an issue. Still isn't as reliable as a couple Onslaughts with HAGs in all its large mounts, and a good volume of supporting kinetics with Ballistic Rangefinder.
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Thaago

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2024, 12:46:29 PM »

I've had success vs ordos with HMG + elite PD thanks to them being reckless and generally short ranged. I don't know if I'd call it 'meta' or anything, but it can work.
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prav

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2024, 12:57:08 PM »

If your MGs simply ensure that no shielded enemy goes within MG range, well, that can also be valuable.
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